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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,804 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    They have a legitimate Ukrainian government. Democratically elected.

    As opposed to a Russian stooge without a mandate.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    "Both sides", "the world isn't fair", and other generic mental gymnastics to make excuses for Putin's invasion

    Crimea was annexed by Russia. Donbas was taken by force by Russia. Neither had a choice.

    Mask slipping a lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    That was up to the end of November, the same period the Russians lost 90,000.

    So a ratio of 1:7

    Seems quite high, but if you factor in the Russians are fighting with conscripts and prisoners vs a trained army. The fact equipment losses are running at 1:4 and we've seen and heard reports of Russian injured being left for dead. We've heard reports of literally cannon fodder waves being used around Bakhmut. We've also seen quite a few ammo dumps and NY Eve parties going boom!

    I'd also be pretty confident an injured Russian soldier is highly more likely to die from his injuries than an Ukrainian one.

    Do I know the exact figures? No.

    Do I really believe that the losses are equal on both sides? Hell no, the visually confirmed equipment losses is the most compelling reason why.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    What mask? I have consistently posted for over 6 months, maybe even longer that what I would like to see is a negotiated peace deal to end the war. As opposed to HUR DURR MORE DEAD ORCS HIMARS level of stuff here.

    People aren't be realistic here - it doesn't matter what you think is fair. It's not. Poland got run over many times because of where it is, unfortunately for Ukraine it's in a bad spot and all it can do is play it's hand the best in it's position. Clearly it has not. Russia may be acting like a homicidal maniac in your eyes but they have to be listened to because of their big **** off stick - it's the same with the US, China and probably India to be fair to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Russia annexed, attacked and then invaded a country which is no threat to it whatsoever. You're trying to justify that with all this limp-wristed crap we've seen countless times in here from Putin supporters and anti-Western whataboutists.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    I don't particuraly like the Russian regime, they are bunch of sick twisted elitist murderers too but I really hate the hypocrisy of the western "democratic" ones.

    Let's say my mask did slip, like many here who are clearly bloodthirsty - but I'd be much more happy than a bunch of gormless and innocent soldiers and civilians being killed I'd be happy to see a small bunch of elites around the world, including in Russia eviscerated.

    Exceptionalism defenders piss me off too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭threeball


    I'm coming round to your house tonight with a hammer and butchers knife and you're going to give me your living room, Kitchen and master bedroom to do with as I please. And you're going to sign an agreement that you'll never ask for them back or seek help from me taking more in future.

    Lots wouldn't like it buy hey, you don't want to live the alternative and you can ignore might.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    "US/UK invaded Iraq 20 years ago, therefore US/UK is hypocrite for being against an invasion now" is always the subtext to every one of these spiels.

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,804 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If Ukraine arent in NATO Russia can just return when ready with an even bigger stick.

    It wont be a peace just a temporary truce.

    Russia has already broken the Budapest agreement multiple times. Without Ukraine in NATO they will just do the same again to any new treaty.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But yet you make no mention or what suggestions Russia has to give up in Ukraine,

    So far we got ukraine gives up the east and Crimea and be banned from entering Nato .

    So what's Putin doing other than celebrating with your plan ?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    The simplification of a nations complex history and wildly different administrations down into a single "personality" - Russian State TV and "independent thinkers" the world over




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,819 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    957D0879-79A6-4D95-AE96-BDD50E1E3F83.jpeg

    Japan only know russia as incompetent losers, the russians thought them that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What exactly changed.?They got rid of a corrupt president thats wanted for treason for supporting the seperatists in Donetsk and Luhansk and sits in exile in Russia,and replaced him with a democratic elected.

    What did you miss



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Whenever I see "Putin is bad but". I always know what's coming after the 'but'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Or I hate Putin and some other waffle in sigs but all pro russian posts ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Somehow I see business being brisk for this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    There is very little about this war that is 21st century. It's mainly an artillery slugfest.

    Of course men alone won't be enough for Russia, they will need to equip them. Can they do that? Unknown.

    To the people saying that Russia can't sustain this - why not?

    In 1939 Germany produced 380 tanks. In 1940 they produced 1900 tanks. By 1944 they managed to produce 19,000 tanks even though their factories/cities were been bombed on a scale that is hard imagine.

    In wartime many things suffer but the production of military hardware isn't one of them.

    Will Russia turn into a wartime economy? If Putin gets his way then yes. Will the west? Highly unlikely.

    That isn't to say that Ukraine can't win but people are very naive to think that a long war will automatically mean a defeat for Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Well this year they lost 60/70 % of all of their tanks,

    How many have they replaced



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    There is very little about this war that is 21st century. It's mainly an artillery slugfest.

    Apart from drones, ATGMs, HIMARS, satellite mapping, GPS and laser guided weapons, it's just like WW1 :) Jokes aside, indeed it's developed into a stalemate and trench conditions, but the capacity is also there for sudden movements. On both sides.

    To the people saying that Russia can't sustain this - why not?

    They are down into prisoners and mercenaries less than a year in, not a great sign. They are pulling older and older tanks out of cold storage and having to refit all the stuff that's been stolen off them. There are unscrewing nukes off Cold War missiles and relying on Iranian drones because they are "totally not" running low on advanced, guided, missiles. Sanctions are making it trickier for them to source complex components for their more advanced military equipment, or even simple stuff, like the special rubber from their tank tracks (which is made in the US). Speaking of sanctions, their economy is squeezed and their energy revenue, which funds the war, is dropping. In a country with a GDP half the size of the state of California.

    Indeed they can keep going for a long time, they have production, they can conscript more - but there are some pretty serious cracks showing already

    Also, I wouldn't really compare Putin's "special military operation" to Germany's invasion of the continent in WW2, for one, German soldiers didn't have to lug back toilets and secondly, they didn't get bogged down in Poland and have to retreat two months in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    In some good news.

    France to send more Caesars and to train 600 troops monthly.

    Also some hope that Switzerland will sell Leopards 2 back to German to backfill the tanks they send to Ukraine. Needs to be a vote for that to happen which won't happen for a few months.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    ... long war will automatically mean a defeat for Russia.

    What other outcome is there for the West/ Ukraine?

    If Russia gets to hold its current position then the West / Ukraine loses as it will just mean that Russia makes another move in another year or so... So the West won't let that happen.

    If Russia takes over the whole of Ukraine then the West loses as Russia will just move a bit further on in another year or so... So the West won't allow that to happen.

    The West requires Russia to be pushed back, its military significantly depleted and ideally Putin strung up from a lamppost by Russians. The only way I can see the West collectively giving up support for Ukraine in whatever form that happens to take in the future is if for some reason all other sources of fossil fuels become unavailable and the whole rest of the world's economys tank. That's not going to happen though, and Russia will be kept at bay until they destroy themselves. If need be then the West would resort to boots on the ground, but if they can leave it to a combination of Ukraine using Western military hardware and Putin and his idiotic generals destroying Russia then so much the better.


    Russia won't be winning anything.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No western nations are not directly involved in the war,so it not needed,however production have increased,both US and Europe have increased their production of artillery shells and other ammunition to fill up the stocks again ,that have been delivered to Ukraine,and you will see alot higher defence budgets coming in the next few year after lessons learned from the Ukraine conflict.

    And most of Russias armour are still in storage and it takes atleast 3 months to bring one tank out and upgrade to modern standard,thats if they have the spareparts needed and not atleast electronics ,that Russia have been importing from the west before sanctions.

    A new tank like t90 will take even longer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭Dufflecoat Fanny


    Activity in Russian-occupied Areas (Russian objective: consolidate administrative control of and annexed areas; forcibly integrate Ukrainian civilians into Russian sociocultural, economic, military, and governance systems)  

    Russian forces and occupation authorities continue efforts to identify and arrest Crimean Tatars under allegations that they associate with a pan-Islamist political organization banned in Russia. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on January 30 that Russian forces searched 25 Tatar homes and arrested nine people under accusations that they associate with Hizb ut-Tahrir (a pan-Islamist political organization that has historically been active in Central Asia and in Crimea amongst the Crimean Tatar community and that is banned in Russia).[55] The Center also reported that Russian forces are conducting an ethnic cleansing campaign against Crimean Tatars under the guise of fighting terrorism.[56] Russian occupation authorities have historically targeted Crimean Tatar communities to consolidate social control of occupied Crimea, promoting the notion that anti-Russian sentiment is extremist or terrorist activity by affiliating it with Hizb ut-Tahrir.[57] ISW previously reported that the Russian Federal State Security Service (FSB) conducted similar raids on Crimean Tatar households in Dzankoi, occupied Crimea, on January 24.[58]

    Russian forces and occupation authorities are continuing to evict and deport Ukrainians from their homes in occupied territories under the guise of “evacuation.” Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai reported on January 30 that Russian occupation authorities are housing Russian and Wagner forces in abandoned homes after forcibly evicting residents from settlements along the frontlines in occupied Luhansk Oblast.[59]

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-30-2023



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭zv2


    IMF does not have a good reputation for these kinds of predictions.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Oh I know, they are really just estimations. Often they can be wildly off. The bottom line is that Russia, economically, is in a much worse place than if they didn't invade Ukraine. They wouldn't be sanctioned, they wouldn't have hundreds of billions locked up, they would still have Europe paying them almost a billion per day for resources, they wouldn't be an intl pariah, and they wouldn't have an expensive war to maintain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,462 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭zv2


    For sure. I was questioning their assertion that Russia would do better than England. I don't think so. Like the fellow that went bankrupt: "At first slowly, then suddenly"

    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,775 ✭✭✭Homelander


    It's not a valid comparison.

    Mainstream tanks back then were far simpler in design relatively speaking. Also, most of the "tanks" Germany produced were assault guns, not actual tanks.

    Russia cannot pump out anything remotely near that level of modern, high-tech tanks.

    There's lots they can scale up dramatically, including some vehicles, but high-tech tanks and other war-winning weapons is not one of them.

    If you want to make comparisons with WW2 Germany, a more apt one would be the total German inability to produce enough of every kind of weapon that might have helped stemmed the tide, like the 262, V2's, Tiger IIs, Stg44 assault rifles, etc.

    But they couldn't, because producing high-tech stuff requires enormous scarce resources which they didn't have free access to. Hence why they focused on stuff that they could produce in mass numbers, but wasn't ever going to do anything other than slightly prolong the war at best.

    Russia is not really any different, if you think 20,000 T-90's (or even T-72s) are going to start rolling off the assembly lines, you are very much mistaken.

    They could mass produce a low-spec tank, but that wouldn't be of any real use.



This discussion has been closed.
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