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N17 - Knock to Collooney [design & planning underway]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭BronsonTB


    Beyond fustrated (now angry)....alot less respect for anyone in the decision making process..

    www.sligowhiplash.com - 3rd & 4th Aug '24 (Tickets on sale now!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    The preferred corridor will be published on www.n17knockcollooney.ie on the 31st of January 2023. According to a Sligo Co Co press release today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Paddico


    Whats the time frame for this road?

    Completion by 2030 is my guess



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 jnorahs


    2045 was the initial date of completion so i'd say 2047!

    Landowners have begun receiving letters now so not long to wait thankfully!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 jnorahs




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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The section south of Knock Airport has been dropped (it's a complete no go as long as cabbage head is Minister for Transport anyway). Sensibly, the wide S2 approaching Collooney is included for an online upgrade.

    This brings it down to 40km. A pity the bottom 10km or so was omitted as improving legacy S2 roads to 2+2 in rural areas on the cheap ala the N2 Ardee-Castleblayney road is a noble goal in the pursuit of safe and efficient inter urban roads (this aim has gone up in smoke since 2020). Bypassing Charlestown and Tubercurry should help advance that section anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,018 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    If any part of it was to go, it makes sense to drop the section south of the airport. Almost everything from Knock Airport north is poor for a national primary route (apart from the short Charlestown to Curry stretch) so correct I think that that's where the focus is.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Everything from Knock Airport north is poor but everything from Knock to Knock Airport is also poor. TII included it in this project for good reason. If this project goes ahead you'll then have 10km of legacy, 1980s style wide S2 sandwiched in between two good roads (the new one and the 2000s era Claremorris/Knock bypass) which will be prone to accidents and leave an unnecessary gap in between the two good sections.

    TII have tried to avoid this where possible (prioritising gaps like Waterford-Glenmore and Ardee-Castleblayney for example) but the Minister is too ideologically narrow minded to understand the benefits of this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    Personally I'm very happy with the route. Only thing is it's quite close to my parishes GAA pitch but it avoids most people's homes in the area and its not cutting lots farms in two like some of the routes




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Project is also nicely split up for phasing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,018 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    If they're phasing it then hopefully everything north of Curry gets priority. It's a horrible run from Curry up to Ballinacarrow.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    It's likely phased in that manner to appease the Minister. It's more likely to get priority that way. Obviously it's not the most effective way of delivering the project but the LAs here seem to be pragmatic about it doing it this way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    I'm not convinced they'll ever allow type 2 DC along this route and the entire stretch will end up type 1 single carriageway. There was a lot of tut-tutting that Westport to Castlebar will be DC, even from local people who will benefit from the new road. All the usual stuff like 'they should have upgraded the existing road' and 'Mayo doesn't need a dual carriageway' was trotted out. It's harder to justify T2DC on this section of the N17 as it's less busy than Westport to Castlebar. There is also the precedent of the N26 dual carriageway being turned down for planning in 2010 as ABP thought it was over-engineered for the traffic levels expected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Are you suggesting that the new road will be SC?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 FrankLeeSpeaking


    I got my map in the post today and my house is mark in green - on the 500 meter footprint - and it says 'Properties in Receipt' in the legend. What precisely does this mean?



  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Yes I think so. The N17 along this stretch has AADT of 6k or 7k, which is actually in the range for a type 2 single carriageway (<8,600 AADT). There's no way they would make it type 2 single as the rest of the N17 is wide SC. Type 1 SC is OK for AADT of up to 11,600, so that should cover the N17 for the next few decades at least. They will hopefully try to come up with a justification for T2 dual (such as better safety record etc), but it would be hard to get it approved given that major road projects are subjected to more rigorous scrutiny these days based on their environmental impact. I'd say that's why they dropped the section south of Knock Airport, and kept the new preferred route mostly very close to the existing N17.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,244 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    I assume this is the sort of project that isn't I tender to finish until early 2030's, or would it be sooner? Travel this when going from Cork to donegal, if this and cork-limerick were done it'd be a great help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Type 1 Single with a limited number of (maybe compact-GSJ) junctions will do just fine here - as @DumbBrunette says the traffic levels are very low, and safety, not capacity is the driving force behind the upgrade. If traffic does increase in future, it’s not very expensive to widen to 2+2 so long as any structures over are made wide enough (which I believe now have to be on all new primary Single Carriageway builds).

    The junction with N5 seems a little wasteful when there’s already a new overbridge just a couple of hundred metres to the west.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,813 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Yeah, I've said it before, it'll most likely be SC. I think there is potential to upgrade more of the existing road south of Ballynacarrow. Also the existing bridge over the N5 and junction could be incorporated.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I noticed the closeness of the new road to the existing N17/N5 junction. Unclear if 2 GSJs will be provided or if they’ll somehow merge them. The old road certainly wouldn’t need its own GSJ after the new one is opened.


    Would broadly agree on dual vs single. Traffic levels would not justify dual, this section is just too quiet. No big towns and Sligo isn’t too big either.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    It will probably be done in sections starting north and working south. I can't see the Curry to Charlestown bit ever getting done to be fair. If talk of the project been downgraded to SC transpires, then building a road 2mts wider then the current section parallel to the Charlestown/Curry would be difficult to sell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,813 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The Tobercurry and Charlestown bypasses are the most justifiable sections of this project and align with government policies regarding making town centres more attractive, focusing development around existing settlements, etc.

    Looking at the route, I think it would be better to reduce the scope of the project to south of Charlestown to north Tobercurry (basically the green and red sections). I think the Business Case for this would be much stronger and would be more likely to actually happen. The rest could be done as smaller online upgrades with short offline sections where necessary. I'd still be looking at 4 or 5km offline new build around Ballynacarrow though.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    But it would bypass Charlestown which the current road doesn't do.

    I don't think it's a good idea to have the N17 east of Charlestown reach only up to the N5, then another phase continuing it south. Since neither the new N17 nor the N5 should have traffic crossing the median while trying to interchange, you'd have to build the whole N17/N5 junction as part of whichever phase came first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    The Connacht Telegraph is saying it will be the 2030s until construction starts.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Jeez, talk about trying to manage expectations! Will any planning permission not have elapsed by then? Or are they expecting design and planning to take so long that it will probably not happen until the late '20s?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,813 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    This is one of the issues with these massive planning undertakings, everything is wrapped up together but nothing can happen until the entire thing has run its course. That's 30km between Charlestown and Coolaney on ice for several years.

    He highlighted that the dangerous junctions on the section between the airport and Knock also need to be addressed, and that could be done now.

    I thought that part of the above linked article was interesting. There must be an intention to do works around the airport separately, which pressumably is why it is not really part of the scope. I think this approach should be taken on other sections too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 608 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    I think they stated that Mayo CoCo can access funding to upgrade the N17 - Kiltimagh and Aughamore junctions now outside of the N17 scheme, like they are doing with Claremorris - Lisduff.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,813 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I assume these are the lands he referes to, just over a km east of the existing junction

    If they are to build a new N5/N17 junction, this seems like a reasonable location. The land both sides of the N5 is elevated making bridging over easy and the existing L road junctions on either side of the N5 at that point could be incorporated into new propoer junction.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    Even though the current traffic patterns may not justify a DC on this route, my hope would be that they build for the future. Our population will grow, Sligo and its hinterland will grow given the huge demand for housing. With not even a mention in the rail review of them reinstating the line from Galway up to Sligo, joining two population centres, which would probably make the thing somewhat viable, the road is the only show in town it seems. The traffic levels may not justify it right now, but in the coming years I'm sure it will.



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