Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

N17 - Knock to Collooney [design & planning underway]

Options
145791017

Comments

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    It had already been confirmed as much by TII a few years ago before the current mess were in, so I’d imagine it can be taken as a given now.

    There’s a few of these long projects that will be split up because on their own they would consume too great a proportion of the overall roads budget. Splitting this up many actually see parts of it done faster for that reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    This was originally three projects: Knock-Charlestown, Tobercurry Bypass, Tobercurry-Collooney, so it’s not surprising that it would be split again. Although I’d prefer a different breakover point between the schemes now, something like: Knock-N5, Charlestown-Tobercurry Bypass, Tobercurry-Collooney, and do them from North to South: the two towns need bypasses, but Tobercurry-Collooney is a very dangerous road and safety should be first priority here.

    In general, I think it makes a lot of sense to plan these upgrades as big projects, but when it comes to getting them built, sometimes it’s cheaper to do it in parts: there are few companies who would be willing to take on the whole 55 km, so splitting it into sections allows for more tenders to be received.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nobody pays road tax in Ireland.

    Motorists pay motor tax, which is based on the emissions of the motor



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The taxpayer. Just like everything else in the country. Money taken from motor tax goes into the general taxation pots that pays for everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Motor tax brings in around €900 million a year, that doesn't cover the cost of maintaining the roads we have* let alone building new ones. Having said that, all car related taxes bring in about €6.2 billion per year (1.7b VRT, 3.5b fuel - and we can probably expect that to rise this year). So we do more than pay for the roads that way.

    * We spend €1.42billion on road maintenance: https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/transport/2022/



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Road maintenance is not the only cost, there are a good deal more costs e.g. economic, societal etc. This has been rehashed on other, more appropriate, threads many times



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    My worry is that its all planned out as a single, large project and passes the various gates in terms of environmental studies, planning etc.

    Then its broken into chunks with certain pieces built before the rest, it could be a decade or more before the originally planned scoped road come to fruition. In that time things change or planning permission expires and the the remaining sections get panned and we end up throwing all the good work in the bin and start the whole thing again at huge cost. We see this happen all the time in Ireland. Millions are spent planning roads, consultants are paid big bucks, planning takes ages and then the project is "postponed" or "suspended" and we end up with half a road and be glad we got it.

    As you say , Originally this was broken up into sections and then brought together as one large scheme, seemingly to take advantage of economy of scale and the fact the entire section needs an upgrade anyway, and then to break it up again to deliver it in parts makes no sense to me.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    One obvious reason for breaking it up is resources.

    The pot for road spending is shrinking and only going to get smaller. In terms of spreading the funds around, it makes sense to do many smaller projects in as many constituencies as possible, rather than putting all the resources into large scale developments.

    It also allows for the constant promises of "the next bit" in 3-5 years when in reality it might not come until 7-10 years after the previous bit.

    One good example of this is the Athenry ring road. Its a small project, broken up into 1-2km sections and being done 1 section at a time almost at a rate of 1 a decade



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Again. There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. Road. Tax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I suspect that combining the schemes into one was done to avoid the “rosary beads” effect of small bypasses, where completed the road ends up circling one town, then another, then another. The only economy of scale is that it’s all surveyed, designed and managed from one office, rather than three or four. With that master design to work from, the scheme can be put out to tender in smaller sections in the knowledge that the final thing will join up properly. It also helps to have the final alignment through planning, as it gives a lot more flexibility in scheduling the construction.

    The fate of the Athenry Ring Road isn’t really relevant to this: for a start, it’s not a national route, it’s not funded from the Government capital budget, and it’s not being managed by TII. Galway County Council decided to build it, and it votes a new bit of that road to be built, by its own labour, whenever they have some spare cash - it’s not a construction project with a contract. That’s not exactly a great way of doing road construction, but there you go..

    If you want a national route that’s been sliced into tiny sections, look at N56 Dungloe to Glenties in Donegal. But again it’s not necessarily for cost alone: this is nearly all online upgrades, and there’s no real alternative route for traffic to use, so the only way to do it without forcing people into taking 30 km detours was to work in 3~5 km sections. In effect, though, a lot of those works were done as a rolling project, with one section beginning before the previous has ended.

    For this, three projects of 20 km each seems most likely, and it neatly divides the the sections into a priorty order: the northern 20km is lethal, but would be quick and cheap to do as an offline build, the middle one is congested (and would be the most expensive), and the southern one is okay but just needs minor improvements.

    Post edited by KrisW1001 on


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Ah I see. They're a troll who doesn't even live in Ireland. Bye bye then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    I would take a 2045 completion date to mean that this won't be finished in most of our lifetimes, being honest. I remember back in the late 90s/early 2000s when councillors in Mayo were up in arms that the N5 Westport - Longford upgrades weren't scheduled to be finished until something like 2014. It's 2022 now and Westport to Castlebar East is still not expected to open this year even, Castlebar to Bohola has been pretty much canned and Ballaghaderreen to Strokestown still hasn't started and needs to be retendered.

    To be honest if they could just focus on Collooney to Tubbercurry and get that bit done I could live with the rest of it, but that long stretch north of Tubbercurry is shocking for such a key route into the north west.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    "To be honest if they could just focus on Collooney to Tubbercurry and get that bit done I could live with the rest of it, but that long stretch north of Tubbercurry is shocking for such a key route into the north west."

    I would definitely agree with you there. Its definitely the worst part of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    If its been done in stages I really hope Tubbercurry to Collooney is the starting point



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users Posts: 11 jnorahs


    Glued to this and it's pushed out everytime, if you could just believe them!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,821 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    In fairness, I dont think it has been pushed out now. The update in March said;

    For the purposes of completeness, it has been decided not to publish (for public display and consultation) the Emerging Preferred Corridor until after the Peer Review process has been completed. This will ensure the most robust corridor possible is presented to the public and taken forward for the next more detailed phase of ‘Design & Environmental Evaluation’.

    Then the update in June said;

    Sligo Regional Design Office submitted the proposed Emerging Preferred Corridor to Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) for Peer Review at the end of May 2022. This has been scheduled for early July 2022.

    It is not possible to publish (for public display and consultation) the Emerging Preferred Corridor until after the Peer Review process has been completed.

    Once the Peer Review process has been completed (anticipated early to mid-July), this office will issue an update with the anticipated timeline for the public release of the Emerging Preferred Corridor.

    And now August says;

    A draft Emerging Preferred Corridor and draft Option Selection Report underwent a review process in July. Actions arising from this review are currently being established. It is intended that this additional work will be conducted over the months of August and September. Subject to satisfactory conclusion, the Sligo RDO hope to be in a position to publish the Emerging Preferred Corridor in October.

    They are going through the various steps as outlined.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Just putting this out there but I'd actually be OK if this was downgraded to single carriageway. That would still be a huge improvement over the current road, would save heaps of money and there won't be any more DC further south as Claremorris/Knock bypass widening is cancelled and Tuam-Claremorris may never happen now with the construction of the new junction southeast of Claremorris.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    I'd have to disagree with you there. Part of the problem with the current road is slow moving traffic - tractors, campervans etc causing major tailbacks with the traffic stuck behind for many Kms unable to pass. This make people take stupid risks with overtaking moves, I've seen several close calls. I think as a road linking two major hubs on the west coast and an international airport in between, a DC should be put in place. Even is just as far a Knock Airport. But if push came to shove and they could install a high quality single as the only option, then yes. But DC would be my preferred option.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 11 jnorahs


    Apologies my reply has posted as a stand alone comment, anyway all relevant!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 jnorahs


    We met with an engineer late 2021 when they had the public consultation in the Sligo Park Hotel, one of many. It was so beneficial as we are severely affected by a route, he had hoped springtime possibly May a preferred route emerging so course we clung to that so for us eveey press release was a month further from May. Here we are October refreshing the website on the hour!! Hopefully we will hear this month



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 jnorahs


    Pushed out again, so so frustrating!!

    https://n17knockcollooney.ie/



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    More info in January. I appreciate it must be very frustrating to those who might be affected by the potential route. Hopefully in Jan they will publish the route and allow people to plan.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭hangar18_


    This is so frustrating. I can't get planning for an extension on my house and my brother's farm is also effected by this. I knew this would be pushed out and it will again in January. I would be surprised to see the the route in the first half of 2023.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 jnorahs


    We are waiting to submit planning too, it's really so annoying I don't believe any timeline now either... I'd say you're right!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    Very frustrating but expected. I noticed Sligo Co Co are building a new footpath through one of the routes on the Ballina Road in Tubbercurry so they possibly see a decision on routes a long way off or maybe they know that route won't be chosen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 jnorahs


    Saw that work in Tubbercurry too, Initially I thought it was road works on the black route and it not even announced yet but wouldn't be surprised but It is drainage pipes and a footpath though you're right. Few articles in local papers this week the concensus is anger frustration!! Its completion in 2050 approx won't even bother the majority of us it's the here and now that's the torture!!!



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    A new footpath surely doesn’t rule out a route through there being chosen. How much do footpaths cost?



Advertisement