Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Using that logic what does any country owe Ukraine?

Anyone is perfectly entitled to criticise a government. If you think every NATO member is doing a perfect optimal job of supplying Ukraine, cool, I don't share that opinion. If you think every NATO member is equally pulling it's weight relative to others, cool, I don't share that opinion either. This isn't a charity auction.

Oh so it could escalate into a massive continental scale war.

Glad we can agree that potential exists.

You can't fight a war if you are constantly afraid something bad might happen. No risk no gain. The west needs to accept the risk, or shrivel up in cowardice.

Belgium pays into the EU budget, and the EU has various funds to benefit Ukraine both with financial aid and military aid.

Belgium already contributes to that as part of the EU, so it doesnt owe anything to the EU. Anything owed to the EU is paid.

By your logic Ireland, as a net financial contributor to the EU, is totally exempt from any EU policies and aspirations. According to you the obligation or onus is based around whether you are a net contributor or benefactor from the EU budgets.

Haha.

Yet if anyone here criticizes nato, or the US.

Well, we've seen what happens.

Your take, from the limited information available to the public is that it was solely Germanys fault. Even though Germany initially said it wanted US to do the same re;tanks, to jump at the same time, rather than US getting Germany to jump first.

The US refused because its tanks which can get to Poland, and can get to Iraq, cant get to Ukraine (that line later changed, seems they can now).

All those times Ive read that simply no-one matches the mighty logistical capabilities of the US, well, this time ... well you see there are logistical issues. So Germany need to stop being pu55ies and quislings and jump first before we do, because reasons. And if they dont our fans will get at them online. Call them cowards etc. Make up tinfoil conspiracies about the German govt. Enlighten the unknowing masses about appeasement.

End result after all the foot dragging, US stepped up, says it will jump with Germany at the same time.

Thats all we know, we dont know about the diplomatic and political complexities that went on behind the doors of agencies and ministries. But we do know that it was all Germanys fault, because the express said so. And because merica is always right and always wins.

Right then, have nato impose a no fly zone. Put a few bombers up there too. Hit them on russian soil.

Come on, balls out. Charge in.

No risk and all that.

It's very predictably having the opposite effect. Moldova to experience some far right activist burning a Koran or similar any day now.

@.Donegal. 3 of the I hate Germany brigade on here aren’t even Irish. Some of them see Poland as the new leader of Europe after this lol.

The poles are on the way to being the most powerful military in Europe after America,

Why couldn't they be a leader going forward politically in the eu ,

Not as if Germany have handled the last 12 months or decade even with any real leadership, we've gotten plenty of excuses and appeasement.

But no leadership

There is no need to provoke Russia by attacking them. All that is needed is to give Ukraine what it needs.

US Republicans continue to baffle me. Clearly, it's the G.O.P. specifically, as here party-enclave outsider, Brian Kilmeade, famous Republican Voter, sits utterly baffled that Senators like JD Vance would continue to argue that Ukraine is a lost cause or a quagmire or should just cede its territory to an manyfold unlawful invasion.

As a deflection these Republicans keep pointing the fingers at China. Which is a completely different case and circumstances. The short version is they are mad that China is decently good at playing Capitalist on the global stage, including buying up real estate and such in the US in our Free Market Economy tm -- TLDR years of trying to have things both ways comes home to roost, they sold out their state/fellow citizens out to the best bidders and that was increasingly China and they cried foul. The GOP/CPAC etc. though are entirely sympatico however with Russia and fundamentalists in Hungary etc. so I guess it's no wonder they just see Ukrainian children as Nazis in training and we should just leave country to fallow.

Actually I was defending Germanys right to move carefully and not be called cowards by those tucked away nice and warm in safe distant places.

It is an escalation, are there are considerations to be made about how average Russians (including those who haven't had the wool pulled over their eyes) will react. For those with a brain the goal is not to defeat Russia, that is long and messy, full of death and misery. The smart goal (for any good European leader at least) is to defeat Putin, in the eyes of Russians, or at least force him up some kind of face saving off ramp. So propaganda is an important consideration. And Germany has the right to consider its moves carefully, given whats on the table.

Even Peter 'America is always right' Zeihan said something to that effect. So give it a rest.

Ukraine's air defences are now so frustrating the Orcs, they are resorting to using the hypersonic Kinzhal missiles to punch through to hit vital targets, like substations in cities in the latest barrage.