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Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Ulster should have done enough here to get over the line and qualify but again a performance that leaves alot to be desired.

    Stockdale couldnt catch covid tonight, not doing his Ireland credentials any good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Awful first half by Ulster but an enjoyable second half.



  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Wikidy


    I think Ulster ultimately did well against a very competitive Sale outfit. Sale were animals at the breakdown in the 1st half. I'd love to see teams do more of that. It is good to see ulster win a 50-50 game. Well done tonight. They have been poor recently, let's see what happens in the next game...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,352 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Ulster qualified and Stockdale was far better than you imply



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,808 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    ???


    I thought Stockdale played well tonight, he dropped one at the end, but that was a more than decent performance from him tonight.

    Hume was very good too. If he had been playing like that earlier in the season he would be in the Ireland squad right now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Seconded - thought Stockdale, whilst not amazing and far from his best - was significantly improved last night.


    Best atmosphere at a game in a while.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Is there some logic I am missing that makes Ulster locked in at 8th? Because Montpelier are only 27 points ahead on PD and are currently losing by 21 to London Irish, if LI score again and that's the final score wouldn't that push Ulster up to 7th no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Ill answer my own question, the second permutation is tries after H2H so that confirms Ulster are locked in. Only just found out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Points difference is the first permutation.


    https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/format/rules/

    If two or more clubs in the same pool are equal on match points, their ranking will be determined as follows:

    (i) the best aggregate points difference from the pool stage; or

    (ii) if equal, the number of tries scored in the pool stage; or

    (iii) if equal, the club with the fewest number of players suspended for disciplinary incidents in the pool stage; or

    (iv) if equal, by drawing lots.


    It's just no one figured that London Irish had a chance of beating Montpellier. Let alone by this much.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Ah okay, I thought I read it say H2H was first.

    Obviously noone saw this coming but even on Wikipedia it has Leinster v Ulster as a locked in fixture. Most people would write off LI today but surely not Wikipedia aswell?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    You might have found an old explanation. It was h2h first when there was groups where people played each other.


    Wiki can take a few bad sources. Just look at Leinster prop Michael Ala'alatoa. He never kicked a penalty for Crusaders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,608 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The42 reporting that Cooney is interested in playing for Scotland.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Interesting. There isn't much in Gregor Townsend's comments, other than he seemed keen to get in there that Cooney initially approached him about the opportunity, and he seems lukewarm at best on the possibility of it happening.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Quinn Roux to Ulster is another rumour out on SM



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I've heard this too. Would be interesting, and would put him in a club of guys who've played for 3 of the 4 provinces. Has anyone ever played for all 4?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Quinn Roux has been out for months with a knee injury I believe. If it's something he could recover from then would be great to get him back to an Irish province, he'd add much needed quality depth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Does anyone know why Frank Bradshaw Ryan hasn't been used by the senior team? Has he started once, or been brought on off the bench once?

    Surprised so far, I'd thought he would have been an upgrade on Alan O'Connor, so wondering why he has been playing for the Ulster A team and not featuring in match-day squads at all.

    I thought he was signed on a 1-year contract, so presumably he'll be moving on at the end of the season if he doesn't get any game time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bradshaw Ryan got one appearance off the bench, for 28 mins, against Ospreys.

    I'll admit though, I struggle to see why Alan O'Connor gets so much gametime. He's amongst the highest minutes of any player in Irish rugby this season, and to me is consistently ineffective. Poor carrier, not a dominant set piece player and barely URC level to me. I get he has a leadership role in the squad, but to me he's part of the problem rather than the solution in the Ulster tight 5.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Yea, he's well liked by our fans because of his workload and consistency, but he's exactly the sort of player we need to improve upon if we want to even pretend to compete for silverware.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭launish116


    No he's exactly the sort of the player the rest of the forwards should mimic! Steady & hard working. This not kid ourselves, marques players are useless If the standard across the board continually wavers. I'd far rather have a pack of 8 steady eddies week in week out and slowly raise the bar, than have a pack that is up and down depending on who's playing.

    Sooner we realise we're never going to win silverware A) buying in marque players B) without a squad the doesn't constantly relies on first choice players week in week out. Yet again we're seeing this now Marty Moore is injured.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Didn't say anything about marquee players, I said we need to improve upon Alan O'Connor in order to win silverware, which shouldn't really be all that controversial imo. Buy them, develop them or conjure them out of thun air is fine by me.

    I like AOC for the record, but the fact that he seems immovable from our starting team paints a disappointing picture to me. Is he even in the top 3 2nd rows in any of the other provinces? He might not be fourth in either leinster or munster.

    He's absolutely fine as a squad player for us because, as you said, depth is important. For for me 8 'steady eddies' doesn't raise the bar - it caps your ceiling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭launish116


    8 Steady eddies would be a step forward though, and would be a starting bench mark for improving on. AOC provides continuity and consistency we seem to never have. How often does our back row rotate?

    The issue with Marque signings is the expectation they're gonna change everything. Until our baseline is brought up a cross the board it's pointless throwing money on marques who are one injury away from not been seen for a season.

    My point was if all our forwards had had a starting baseline like O'Connor we actually be making progress. Every time we rotate in slightest we weaken our team not improve it.

    You just need to look at Leinster and there is little to no drop off for a replacement/rotation in URC. Compare that to us? we don't have a decent steady baseline. I even look around our league and see alot of less skilful/boring forwards/probaly paid a lot less who could provide us a better platform than we do currently have for the backs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Yes Leinster have a steady baseline but they have 5 second rows who are all in contention for international caps and each bring a real point of difference to the squad. Ross Moloney might be a comparable player to AOC but is well ahead of him in the Ireland pecking order and is better in most areas of the field. Leinster also have world class talent scattered across the field, so it's not really a fair comparison. Leinster's own version of a consistent, not so flashy player who never lets you down when they last won in Europe would have been Scott Fardy - a capped international who was a decorated player in his own right.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,824 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Ah now to be fair I was with you until you said Scott fardy was our "steady Eddie" when in fact he was very much a marquee player for us.

    A steady Eddie is a Rory o loughlin, who is now a mainstay at Exeter. A consistent 7/10 player who would never really progress beyond a (at best) European bench sport.

    I'm not going to be as presumptuous to tell Ulster what they need, but yes, they need a lot more that Alan o Connor as a shoe in for a starting place

    You also need a better out half, Billy big balls is good but you need better. And you need a fit Ian madigan, five years younger, as his back up



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    I probably played down Fardy a little too much there, but he did the unseen work in a pack filled with internationals in their prime.

    We'll take one of everything tbh - front row depth, a second row, another backrow and someone a step up from Burns. Not too sure the IRFU would be keen on an NIQ spot being used for a flyhalf given how shaky the position looks post-sexton.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,824 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    fair point but at the same time it could be pointed to the IRFU that maybe their policy isnt currently working if the first choice out half at 3 of the 4 provinces isnt even in the ireland full squad.

    Has carbery actually learned anything since going to munster? I havent really seen anything that larkam instilled into him. Who is burns in Ulster taking instruction from? a guy who played second tier rugby union in italy?

    Carty seems to lead in Connacht rather than learn. Mossey lawler is there but is he in a position to improve carty as an outhalf?

    At least at Leinster Ross Byrne, Harry, and Frawley etc would have Sexton to learn from, as well as having contepomi in there for a stretch.

    It might not be the worst move in the world for the IRFU to get a seasoned pro out half into Ulster after the RWC.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,087 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    There's no reason for them to block a NIQ 10. They won't be blocking any young Ulster player.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I'd be in the same place as this. Arguably a good quality NIQ 10 would be of benefit to the development of players in other positions too (e.g. Nathan Doak), and by making Ulster better and more competitive would be a boost to development of players at all levels across the province. I think the history of professional rugby in Ireland points to a situation where success leads to interest levels leads to kids taking up / sticking with the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭launish116


    I think Ulster need to forget this dream of signing one Marque player and sign 2/3 steady eddies who will intern raise the bar across the squad.

    I'd love to know the push for Sheridan now? was big fan at U20s and would love to see him push on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭RuPi


    Rumours that Leinster were enquiring about his plans next season, may be the reason he has jumped a lot of back rows although he apparently went really well v Ealing so may just be on merit and nothing to the rumours.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,087 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I'm betting those rumours are pure invention.

    He goes to Trinity I think, someone is putting 2+2 together and getting 5.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,608 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Doak in ahead of Cooney? Could Cooney be off to Iona?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Doubt it - McF started Alby Mathewson ahead of Cooney when his form dipped - for a knockout game. He might be away, but I reckon he's not starting so that we have a good bench.

    Post edited by Paul Smeenus on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Very nasty head on head collision between two Stormers players. One had to be stretchered off in a neck brace. Hope he's ok.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Adamson is the ref so this game will slow and turgid as hell.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lovely try, Burns terrific in the build up there and good awareness from Doak seeing the gap.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tackler on Hume there two phases before that try was hilariously offside.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Another nice try there. Doak has been good so far. Picking some good options.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Stewart Moore my pick so far, but Doak's been great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    How has adamson decided that was a try? He was a long way away



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Well he's given the try so he can't overrule it unless there is evidence it wasnt grounded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    If anyone can lose it from here its Ulster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Bit mental that was given.

    JTA looking great for a third choice tighthead. Was doubtful about him to start with but injuries were probably troubling him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Player has dipped, tackler has dipped.

    Penalty at most.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    The 12 should be in the bin for his effort at that tackle.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Even allowing for the lack of composure demonstrated by Stormers that's a very determined Ulster performance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,808 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Good shift from Ulster tonight. Toomaga Allen is becoming a fans favourite, Stewart was as robust as ever, Doak had a good game as did Lowry and the two centres (Hume in particular has responded positively last week and this week to his Ireland squad omission). Also a mention for Ben Moxham, I'd say that was his best Ulster performance to date. I thought he played really well.


    Oh and Vermuelen of course had a strong game against his old side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,736 ✭✭✭Bleating Lamb


    Thought Doak was really good tonight,is going to be a regular for Ireland soon.



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