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Dairy Calves 2024

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Ah sure when you put it like that 😀

    Seriously thou, I’ll have a chat with the accountant about it.

    Are these figures right for €50k shed, ex-VAT

    40% TAMS = €20k

    Leaves €30k, then 20% tax write down of €6k

    So €24k net?

    I’m on 20% tax in off-farm job as I only do 3 days/week but I’d jump to 40% if I went to 4 days.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Consider carrying the depreciation over eight years. It may pay to put spouse as a partner if she was in the high tax bracket.

    Remember as well that the shed will drive farm profitably. But yes sums would be as you indicate.

    For a young farmer or a woman farming the 60% grant and high tax bracket would mean a 70k+vat shed would be about 17k. The real catch is bring them in at the department costings. You need to be wide awake. It probably means subcontracting the complete shed

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,432 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    Anyone using Precision microbes? Tommy the vet was raving about them on the Teagasc pod last week.

    Would they be an alternative to a scour vaccine?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    Seems to be only with bobbying on the farm. The wind is turning on this world wide



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The problem is if you bring them elsewhere too young to slaughter it's a mess. Someone somewhere will get a video of some lads acting the bollax.

    We pointed this out 2-3 years ago that milk processors would put in place penalties to stop it.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    Bit disingenuous having him on promoting them. He must be another friend of Mr child's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,432 ✭✭✭✭Green&Red


    Not really, he was up front about being an ambassador for them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    I'll look forward so to the day that they have sobac on for a promotion so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    No but I’ve only heard good reports about it tbh

    going to get some to have on hand for calves with scour



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Threw three Friesian bullocks into the factory today. One of them cracked 2k. The first Friesian ever to do it for me I think The three averaged over 1950. Two of them cost 500 euro mid June '21 I will not know the number of the other lad until I get the cheque.

    So this evening I was going for a walk and I had decided to mark the occasion. It's a mile and a half to the vlllage and back in a circle. However I wasn't hitting the village before 4pm and taught that was it I was too early. However as I was passing the pub would you believe it the owner was walking in the door. Karma so I had three pints one for each of them and headed home for the bacon and turnip. Four more came in while I was there.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Morris Moss


    Use it here and find it good for nutritional scours, wouldn't be expecting it to work miracles though if a calf is very bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    You won't get them for 500 this year. Money for jam.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Bought six last Monday in the mart O grade Friesian 270 kgs for less than 500 including feed.

    Never say never again

    Them other lads has eaten about about 850 kgs of ration costing about 350 euro

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    Why the poor mouth and the bumming of calves out of all the beef farmers so... 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I never bemoan Friesians, I just hope they never manage to successfully develop sexed semen. Although they seem to be getting there.

    A lot of effort went into them TBH, they were hanging around a year and a half, mind you they were obviously the poorest in there bunches.

    The thing with friesian's is some just take more time. Last summer did not help. Friesians need a lot of grass and will consume it if they get it. They will put on weight.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,210 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I don't quite get the concern about dairy farmers not being able to rear a few calves. There are still plenty of people who keep their calves and finish to slaughter anyway.

    Even those that went more specialised into dairy over the last decade or so have hardly forgotten how to feed a few calves. You grow up feeding calves twice a day with a bucket as your first job as a child when the child growing up on the suckler farm might look across the hedge at the bottom of the garden to count the animals a few days a month.

    Even for the lads who expanded up to hundreds of cows now, the computerised feeding systems aren't overly expensive (for them). They can afford proper facilities as well. If you have a proper setup you can look after a lot of calves properly without too much labour or time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It not that dairy farmers cannot rear calves it more that many wish not to. Of course the vast majority have calf rearing skills. After all most rear there own replacement heifers.

    Larger dairy farms have to employ labour for to run there operations, calf rearing another task added to that. As well every 50 calves an extra month on a farm means one less cow.

    Ten ISH years ago the advice was to maximize cow numbers, to use easy calving beef bulls and get all non dairy female calves off the farm as fast as possible.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭davidk1394


    Same here. I found it worked wonders on getting awkward calves to drink too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    @Bass Reeves - "As well every 50 calves an extra month on a farm means one less cow" ???



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Grueller




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    New nitrates legislation has pushed many dairy farms to the 250/HA. That is why some of these are leasing any land they can

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭DBK1


    From a nitrogen point of view for someone stocked to their limit.

    50 calves for 1 month would excrete 98kgs of N, so the same as a cow for a year depending on banding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,210 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Not all lads with dairy followed that advice. The bigger lads might have. Or lads who have gone into it since quotas went probably too. Not everyone went mental when quotas were lifted either. We doubled the number of cows here but in fairness we had originally been hamstrung with a small quota at the start. That left a struggle to build that up before quotas ended which meant we'd have been cautious anyway.

    New regulations making us keep calves for a minimum of X weeks means nothing to us because we keep them to finish anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,210 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The bigger worry for those people would be derogation going to 220kg and high yielding cows up to the 106kg. The man who used to have 3 cows/Ha is going to only have 2 on that same Ha.

    Not everyone is in derogation though. Or some kept out of it by exporting. Exporting will be more difficult but even if it is no longer possible to keep under the 170, you still have a bit of headroom there before the 220.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The change in banding for cows will put a large number of lads that are not above 170 above. A lot of lads below 170 were probably exporting a bit anyway. I run a grass based beef system and I am hitting 170/HA.

    As a dairy farmer from now on it will be virtually impossible to not be in derogation. Ya it's the heavier lads it will effect most but land is the new quota it's what some dairy farmers are paying stupid money for rented ground.

    But nitrates are only part of the problem. If you have to keep 150+ extra calves ( many are selling at 14 days) for 6 weeks longer it's a significant labour issue where a farmer is using all labour to manage a 2 Nd or 3 rd unit.

    For six weeks 150 calves are the equivalent of losing 5 ISH cows. Add in maybe losing 10-15 cows under banding and you see the turnover lost. If a 220kgN/ HA rule came they be.losing maybe another 20+.

    You could see a dairy farm that had 200 cows previously now back nearly to 150 cows

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Around here there would be few and far between dairy farmers that would have less than 100 dairy cows. I guess it would be hard to make a living on any less. There is plenty of suckler farmers around with 50 cows or less and they seem to be doing OK. Now they would have other enterprises going like maybe sheep (not paying well at the minute) or they would be feeding dairy calves or stores to beef, some have a bit of tillage or they do a bit of contracting. Milking cows is a full time job and doesn't leave much time of other enterprises, so if the dairy farmer is going to have to keep bull calves for longer it is going to put a lot more pressure on their time, they haven't even time to go to the mart to sell the bull calves at the minute. As said above the change in the nitrates rules will also have a big impact on the numbers of cows farmers can keep, so with calves around longer they be under pressure here also.

    Was talking to a lad that provides advise to farmers in the UK and Ireland, I was saying to him that in the North and UK you see nearly all Holstein cows unlike here with the Jex cows. He said the UK farmers want volume from less cows where as in the south it is solids from more cows but with the tightening up of nitrates and having to keep calves longer you could see a switch back to a cow producing a larger volume of milk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Cost of adding on calf rearing facilities that are super labour efficient and are setup for automatic feeders dwarfs any labour issues, calf shed in last weeks journal for circa 100 calves cost 150k incl vat with automatic feeders, take a 400 cow unit needing a shed twice this and your up on 300k to rear calves that will probably be net negative at least 70 euro a head when you get them sold at a month old not even adding in interest and capital repayments on new calf sheds, alot of these units haven't a roof over the cows will be some pill to swallow if they have to spend a few hundred k on calf sheds for jrx Cross calves



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    You were lucky you didnt sell 15 you d be in an awful state this morning



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Jb1989


    In fairness to bass he never cries poor mouth on his business. He changes anything that doesn't make profit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    I hope the turnip was fried off in the pan after the bacon was done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭straight


    That's my point. If Bass is making money and others can't, maybe it time to have a chat with oneself besides blaming others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Yes I made money but the lad that had those cattle for 18 months broke even at best. Now I bought them in a mart so technically that was the value. I have probably gone 20-30 on the 500 Friesians just like the ones last Monday. Mind you most stores that I buy are light for there age usually.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭White Clover


    I'd say Bass would admit that he is farming on mostly very good free draining limestone land. That has a massive bearing on profitability.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭older by the day


    Plus, I was watching farmer Phil, he quoted 415 for a high maize ration. If you live in "far away poor land " everything is expensive. Straw 26 euro round bale, high maize ration 450. Higher fert usage, longer winters.

    Ground type makes a huge difference. Even north versus south facing ground. How far from the sea you are. I could not believe how much snow we got here last week compared to ground at sea level, and how long it took the north facing places to thaw



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭mf240




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭weatherbyfoxer


    Seen OK 3 week old fr bulls selling for €5 in Enniscorty yesterday,though it very early in the spring for it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    If he sold 30 he’d have been like the Wolf of Wall St!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭tanko


    You’re making the assumption that his figures are the truth, several times when it was pointed out that the fabled figures were a pile of rubbish, the oh my fat thumb hit the wrong button on the wee screen on my phone line was quickly trotted out. The phrase lies, damn lies and statistics comes to mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Tanko

    I reminded you I showed my 2020 account figures here on this forum over a year ago so the figures are not fables. Last year's were better.

    Ya I agree that the land I have is good however it suffers from drought very easily. However alot of the the land is similar. A few lads f@@king around with suckler cows or buying calves and sling as stores.

    I am stocked at virtually 170 kgs/ HA. I buy a poorer stores and try to maximise my profit from them. I just keep costs under control and make decent silage.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭tanko


    Can you say where you’re getting the 0.8 figure for calves/cow you quote?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,963 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It has been constantly published for the last ten years it has changed little.

    Just look at calving intervals, lad holding onto a cow to give her another chance. I think the average suckler calving intervals is nearly 400 days on average

    Ask any Teagasc advisor for the figures. I know I was in discussions groups and those were the figures quoted as well.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Grueller


    National statistics from the latest ICBF national suckler report.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You’d be surprised if you see the cows that hit say over 150 on the index. I have a good shot of them and they have significant amounts of Holstein breeding mixed in with Angus or whatever.

    The empty rate needs to tackled with scanning/improving breeding/ better culling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭tanko


    Wrong figure yet again, it has changed. The latest figure is 0.87. No suckler farmer i know gives cows a second chance also farmers keeping cull cows to fatten skews that figure. You have some kind of irrational hatred of Suckler bred stock and twist figures to suit this agenda, it’s laughable. The figures you claim for Dairy cross beef stock are mostly nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,210 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    A lot of the requirements that were involved with derogation are either in, or coming in for everyone eventually. It isn't as big a line to cross now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,210 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The official quoted interval is probably going to be overstated due to cows aborting and missing a year also due to some having dead calves and the owner not registering the calves (which they are supposed to do).

    I'm not saying that it happens often, but if you have 20 cows which are 365 interval and one has a dead calf that doesn't get registered then, on paper, you have 19 with 365 day and 1 with 730 so your average on paper is going up there. You'll have 39 calvings on paper with interval of 374.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Grueller


    It will only be 730 if she is allowed calve again next year?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Tanko Bass said 0.8 weaned. Take in 5% mortality and you are back at 0.82 from the 0.87 you quoted.


    Money is and can be made from sucklers, just not enough.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Does it pay to keep freisian bullocks 3 winters?

    This is dairy calf form I know but the reality is there isn’t a massive margin in any beef enterprise.



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