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Dairy Calves 2024

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭alps


    Yaaawn..



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,908 ✭✭✭✭whelan2




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    My days milking are numbered anyway so makes no odds to me but all i see is the calf rearer be it be the dairyman ,suckler man or the lad that buys young sucks are not getting paid for all their work .The beef finisher keeping an animal for 100 days makes more profit then the man that keeps an animal for the 2 previous years and with less risk of mortality



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I think unless there is a serious rise in finished cattle prices that finishers will lose serious money on cattle this winter. I had a few very under finished cattle last September. I would have been better off hanging them at that stage. They were on 5kgs and and silage it was costing 3/day

    Lots of finishers are pushing cattle to turn them over 8kgs day it's costing 4-/day. At present prices it's costing more to feed than they would put on for a lot of cattle types.

    This year I averaged about 40-45c/kg extra for cattle compared to last year. That is about 145-155/ head extra. D

    My costs were gone up as follows fir a summer grazing system.

    Fertilizer 65/head

    Ration 25/head

    Transport 5/head

    Contractor+plastic costs silage 5.5/bale or about 22/ head

    The really killer was the poor grass season cost me about 20kgs DW/head or 90/head.

    I know the store man has costs as well but finishers are back compared to last year.

    Lads finishing out of the shed will need up.on 6/kg to have a few bob out of it especially if feeding young cattle 100 days or beyond that.

    A 450 kg AA/HE store costing 2.2/kg or near 1/k will need 40-60days growing period and 80-90days days finishing period.say 80-90 for the growing stage and 400 for the finishing stage.

    Add 60 euro for mart, slaughter and transportation fees. Add 50 for veterinary, mortality and miscellaneous

    That is about 600 euro.that animal will just about kill 300-310kgs. He is costing 1600 or about 5.2-5.35/kg and I have not added any fixed or other costs.

    A margin of 150/head will need a price of 5.8/kg.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It's in none of our interests that shipping of calves goes.....but the reality is that it will go there is nothing we can do about it. But there has been a head in the sand attitude to it and to other issues in the dairy cow and there calves game for the last five+years.

    We are where we are. There was a presumption that the impact of the calf would be able to be managed within the beef system. After all Larry and co said they could slaughter 40+k animals per week they never said at what prices.

    Look back at the IFA election two years ago. We were going to fly calves out in private jets. Those of us that laughed at it were abominated and the editor of the FJ just sat there and took it at face value. I would love to listen back to that with Justin, and the other lad involved and watch them cringe.

    You may well think it boring @alps but in spring 2024 you will see the results. When calves are taking up nitrates for 6-8 weeks( every 34-40 taking up a cows place and the derogation gone down to 220 kgs/ HA you can yawn then as well.

    I think you were or are a County chairman/ person/woman of the IFA. You better than anyone should know the conquences. However the IFA have a history of not wanting to deal with issues in case of conflict. They follow not lead

    Have a good chat with those in the higher ecelons you will be surprised how much sand ends up in your face as they blow it out waffling to you about it

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,908 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    I am a member of ifa, like a good few other people that's all. Don't attend meetings, never a county chairperson.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I agree they are not getting paid. But in reality there is only margin for 1-2 people in any animal.

    Bigger finishers costs are horrendous what they save in bulk buying they lose in other costs

    Every 100k borrowed was probably costing 5-6k/ year. Allowing for 1.4k buying and feeding costs for every unit that is that is approx 72/ unit assuming you are turning every unit three times that is 23/ head.

    If an animal goes through the mart as a calf, a store and on to slaughter that is 100 euro between transport, mart and slaughter fees that this particular animal.

    Most intensive finishers buy in a lot of there feed and produce a minimum amount themselves except maybe silage. At present rates it's probably 45c/kg DM accross all feed. A 550 kg animal will consume 11 kgs/day or neary 5/ day.

    Add in there machinery, labour ( most of them have a lad or two hired) and housing costs.

    It just about pays me to feed to get friesian's into a grade as I generally buy the lighter weight ones. However I am tending to buy younger and earlier in the year but to do that I must drop finished numbers and this is the way I am tending to move in that direction

    My advice to any calf to stores producer is if your land is decent enough is to switch away from selling stores to finishing the number you can produce. But there are too many costs slipping out of the system other wise

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Sorry my mistake. I do not understand being a member and not being a bit active. I went to a few and figured out it was a head in sand organisation.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,908 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Away 6 nights a week with kids most of the year, don't have time atm



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    Sure see what white clover said. You're not entitled to make money out of it. 🤔



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    What he posted is a harsh take on the reality on the ground. In the beef game you are not entitled to recover your costs. You must figure a system that suits you and leave you a margin. If you cannot figure such a system then you minimum stock, consider organics, and otherwise maximise payment with minimum costs.

    The bould Jack Kenneddy had an editorial/viewpoint last Thursday. I looked it up online (one of my five free views per months) after @Siamsa Sessions highlighted it on this thread.


    There was a link to Declan Marren's article on there finishing of early maturing breeds off grass

    However if you realistically look at the cattle they were the best genetics and with an average birth date of 25 Feb 2021. Is this a realistic system to push farmers into trying to buy calves straight from a mart or farm and trying to finish into the lowest prices time of year. As well they sold into Foyle meats.

    Now the bould JK wants the minister to front up. I think there was a mention about partnership with farmers by the processors. I had to laugh at that. The reality the system was started with an intensive system in mind with production more important that cost control. Jack and Declan have to understand that its looking at profit not output should be where you start from

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    @Bass Reeves you know your system and by your previous posts you have done it well - however there are other systems once you are prepared to be flexible. Over the past year we've be buying tradition bred (AAx/HEx/SHx) heifers, bullocks and a few FR dairy cross bulls with 3 and 4+ movements. We are not QA assured and there is little to no levy on sending same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    You call it head in the sand I call it making hay when the sun shines. Maybe I will need to change my system going forward but for now I don't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭alps


    @Bass Reeves Yawning at the amount of times this thread can say the same thing over and over and over again.

    Dairy farmers are well briefed on this. They know the score....



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,908 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Unbelievable, its as if they think we're totally thick, same **** different day, same posters



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,395 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Their are two very prominent lads on the above making some tools of themselves, it's some ammunition for the anti-farming lobby to screenshot and use down the line, it's all more confusing when the dye is set anyone re the banning of calf slaughter in 2024, but the lads don't want to accept it



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    There is only profit for 1 person out of any animal. My system and it works for me, I have my 20 suckler cows (would love more but couldn't manage them with been a part time farmer). AI all the cows, sell the bullocks in the mart at around 24 months in the 600 - 700 kg bracket, got €3/ kg average for them this year, heifers kept or sold for breeding, again anything sold €3.50 - €4 /kg this year. I also rear about 20 bucket fed calves (I have 2 small children, they love helping and its a good interest for them), I bring these so slaughter as I find you rarely get the full value for O grade stock like these in the mart at any stage. I also tend to buy in about 20 dairy bred stores around 450 kgs from end of August until Christmas, (2 or 3 at a time in the mart when I have time to go). My most profitable enterprise is the sucklers and has been since I took over the farm in 2015. Next is the store to beef and lastly is the calf rearing. But I need to keep at it as there is no way I would have the time to pick up an additional 20 store bullocks that will tick all the QA boxes (movements, age, grade O= min to get the 20 cent QA bonus and kills 300 kg +) in the factor from August to Christmas, I do be under enough pressure to get the 20 I need.

    What I see happening around here now is the diary farmers are expanding and needing more & more land, so they are giving big rental money for land (€400 + an acre, I probably should consider it myself) that was once used by lads to rear dairy calf to beef / store, these lads are now gone out of the market for calves, meaning there is less customers for the dairy bull calves. If this continues then there will be no one to take these bull calves. So with less and less calf rears and no live shipping its looking like there is only one road for the bull calf from the dairy herd and that is calf slaughtering which will destroy the image for Irish Agriculture for everyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Just moved the stores from 2nd cut 2021 silage to 2nd cut 2022 silage.

    Have a pen with 28 stores they were eating a bale a day now they are eating 2/3 of a bale a day. Even though the bales are 25% dearer the cost is working out cheaper. Adding mins I am hovering around a euro a day at present costs.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭mf240


    Id say the only way to move on the extreme calves will be to rear them to weaning and then give away to beef men. Or at small money. But then in a couple of years when they are all fit for the factory and they wont take them cos theres a glut, what happens?

    Someone said the calf doesent owe you anything but you owe him for the years milk the cow will produce for you.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭mf240


    Bass you are so tight its hard not to have a grudging respect for you. Rearing the journal in the shop to avoid buying it is next level .😃😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It not about tight, I consider the FJ as a propaganda leaflet against my interests. Ya I buy it 4-5 times a year but I am against buying it as I would be financing an outlet that is against my interests.

    I consider the FI a much more balanced paper. I have always bought it but the journal no even though the better half likes the supplement.

    If I remember right someone else mentioned that letter and I wanted a look at it. I was f@@ked if I was financing the enemy

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,523 ✭✭✭White Clover




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If they pull the price on them too much most will leave the country as yearling bulls.

    Even at present yearling fr bulls are great value. You will buy 230-280 kg ones for 4-500 euro depending on qualify.

    If you had 340 kg Dw Friesians ready in June this year they will probably be making 1750-1800 euro. You be buying the heavier ones for that

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,841 ✭✭✭mf240


    Having a quick read while the girl in spar was finding out the rock bottom they could take for the tomatoes.😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    And the only news that matters to him comes in thru the letterbox in an envelope with a harp on it

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I saw where the EU agriculture commissioner is making the case to rise support as farmers will mo e away from them. At present IMO my payments are less than 40% of my net profit while I will took ACRES this time (3.5k) it was very marginal. If you do these tasks they must replace lost income not just the cost of doing them.

    Only saving grace was Teagasc was cheap for the plan. I see where there is accelerated depreciation on slurry storage for the next three years. If you and your spouse are on the high tax bracket you should be looking at doing a shed. You can write off a shed over two tax years. Obviously if you are not using the high tax band I imagine you can carry forward unused allowances and use over 3-4 rather than 8.

    Just as an example say you spend 70k+ vat on a shed drew the vat back, drew the 40% grant @ 28k. This would leave 42k in allowances. Written down over 2-3 years would mean 16.8 k in tax refunds/ not paid.shed would cost 25.2k net

    I think there is subsidised small business/agri loans there at present @ 3 ish%. If one could get there hands on some of that it would be very feasible.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    That accelerated slurry storage write off is a great job. Few caveats to it though. The slurry storage must be covered so have to put a shed over it, but the shed itself can't be written off in 2 years. Am putting in a tank this year and wasn't planning on putting a shed over it till next year but will see what account says.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Talk to the accountant/advisor you may still be able to do that and accelerate the tax element in years 24/25.

    Slava Ukrainii



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