Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

1165166168170171174

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is not proof. What did you say your job is? It is actually related to interpreting data? You are looking at a system with thousands of variables and drawing a conclusion about one. Beyond moronic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭walus


    We have established now that you have no credentials and therefore right to state that a person who is currently an expert in public health studies and senior writer/researcher in that field is just a veterinarian, simply because they did PhD in veterinary medicine say 30 years ago. Consequently, to conclude what you did, using your own words - is a strawman without foundation.

    I gave you an opportunity to prove that you have a background that allows you to endorse your arguments. I take it that you don’t have such background.

    It is a fact that you purposely derail conversations to deflect from the core issues on hand. Once the conversation is derailed, it does not matter who wins those arguments, if the arguments are not worth having in the first place.

    Feel free to go down yet another rabbit hole. enjoy the journey, I’ll leave you to it at this point.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,728 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    The amount of time and ‘effort’ these types invest in harebrained theories always puzzles me.

    Maybe it’s because they get their ‘kicks’ from contraryerism and obfuscation and trying too hard to be different.

    Very strange individuals I always find.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We're getting to a stage were we are just going round in circles on a topic that should be long dead, if it wasn't for a tiny minority pushing agenda's to force everyone to mask.

    The authorities have stood firm and told them no.

    At this point, you can wear a mask if you want to. 95%+ don't want to.

    With that in mind, I'll step away from this thread and stop contributing to a debate that should be closed unless something actually newsworthy happens.

    If I do see this thread again, it won't be a surprise which side tries to spark the debate again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭fm


    Re-analysis on the statistical sampling biases of a mask promotion trial in Bangladesh: a statistical replication


    https://trialsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13063-022-06704-



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Yeah I'm pretty sure you'll jump back ASAP. And in the meantime you might get ready some numbers to finally make a sense to your claim "masks don't work" etc.

    We're getting to a stage were we are just going round in circles on a topic that should be long dead, if it wasn't for a tiny minority pushing agenda's to force everyone to mask.

    When seeing this I wouldn't hold my breath, that there is gonna be some meaningful explanation on your stance, ever.

    But I like to get surprised, so maybe ..

    And enjoy your well deserved break !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭fm


    Conclusion of the re analysis here.


    it would not be reasonable to conclude from this trial that there is a direct causal link between mask wearing and the number of residents in villages and households, any causal claims based on effects of similar size in this trial should be considered with caution. In particular, both COVID symptoms and COVID symptomatic seroprevalence exhibited similar magnitudes (and much weaker significance) than population differences which arose from bias and chance alone.

    It is tempting to argue that the recruited and unrecruited individuals would have to be substantially different in how they report symptoms or test positive on serology in order for the recruitment bias to entirely account for the reported effect on endpoints. While a large difference between these populations may be unlikely, the bias evident in the trial outcomes demands caution regardless of assumptions one might be willing to make about unobserved individuals in the control arm.

    In particular, it is critical to consider that all of the outcomes in the study are based on self-reporting of symptoms. Even for the serology endpoint, which may appear unbiased at first glance, subjects were only eligible for a blood draw if they had reported symptoms. Thus, all endpoints are subject to behavioral biases. Our analysis of the population size shows that behavioral biases can produce a highly significant 9% difference between the control and intervention arm in the absence of any causal link with the intervention. It is thus also premature to conclude a similarly sized causal effect on any other variable that is subject to behavior bias, including the trial endpoints.

    The purpose of randomized control trials is to establish a causal link between interventions and outcomes. However, causal implications are diminished in the presence of unblinding, ascertainment bias, and bias-susceptible endpoints. Unfortunately, in the Bangladesh mask trial we evidence of all of the above.

    The study in question raises intriguing questions about the role of public health interventions in changing behavioral patterns to decrease COVID case rates in low- and middle-income countries. The mask intervention was highly effective at modifying behaviors (distancing, mask-wearing, symptom reporting). Nonetheless, the data is consistent with mask wearing having modest or no direct effect on COVID-related outcomes in this experimental setting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,728 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Where is the evidence that “95%+ “ don’t want to wear masks?

    What survey brought up those figures?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    So you don't have an answer to why cases dropped in healthcare settings when workers were given masks?

    And an answer to when mask mandates ended and how do you not know there wasn't an increase in cases when they scaled back testing and contact tracing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭walus


    Now wait for the ‘strawman without foundation’ and ‘but, but she is just a molecular biology professor’, or ‘look what she tweeted the other day’, ‘she clearly is an anti-vaxxer’. Lol.

    I have had issues with this study from day one as I did not agree to the way it was constructed. I can completely understand the need to drive home the need for mask, social distancing and the need for the researchers to be on the ground to ensure the proper conditions. What they missed is the phase two, in which they would remove the masks but still maintain and drive the need for social distancing for the same period of time. This way controlled conditions would have been maintained throughout the process and same for both cases - masks ON, and masks OFF. The difference is the efficacy of the masks.

    The study as is is clearly tinted.

    This study has been used to promote masks and masks mandates by many news outlets. Great pity that it was not as thorough as people were led to believe.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,196 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I think that is a good decision and I refer to your statement that it won't be a surprise which side..keeps it going around and around and around ... which 'side ' would that be ?

    I note you were posting away on the thread last night when everyone else was long gone ...you must be wrecked .

    Take care .

    Post edited by Goldengirl on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭walus


    At the time the masks were introduced in healthcare setting, were there any other measles or changes of behaviour of staff implemented as well? For example frequent disinfections of common areas, frequent hand washing, distancing, insistence that staff stay at home at the slightest suspicion of feeling unwell etc?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    I'm sure you remember well how at the beginning it was all about contact and touching surfaces, so they went went cleaning surfaces, hand washing and hand sanitizing as protection measures.

    People were terrified going around wearing their gloves while shopping if you don't remember.

    None of that helped in healthcare settings though and cases started to drop in healthcare settings when they allowed healthcare workers to wear masks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭walus


    To establish a causal relationship between reduction in transmission and application of masks in healthcare setting you need a lot more that what you or me, or anybody for that matter remembers from that period.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭fm




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,977 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Go outside and take a look.

    I'd say 95% is generous from my personal experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,728 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,977 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    If you want to see proof that barely anyone is wearing masks go look.

    Not sure what chip means but okay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    I am not wearing a mask these days but I will if the public health advice changes. I want to reduce the risk to me and others, so if advised, yes I want to comply and that may involve wearing a mask in certain situations.

    Unfortunately the data expert pulled the 95+% figure out of his arse, he has no clue.

    I would say most want to follow public health advice, maybe that is why you are not seeing huge numbers in the shops but you are seeing huge numbers in healthcare settings.

    'Wanting' to wear a mask has nothing to do with anything, you either want to follow public health advice or you don't.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,977 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I may be wrong but i thought the health advice over the past few weeks to wear a mask.

    It just wasn't mandated.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    There is a difference between :

    Mandate to wear mask.

    Want to wear mask.

    Will wear a mask because it's appropriate for the situation.

    Will wear a mask because the venue / activity requires it.

    Will wear a mask because the venue / activity suggests that it's a good idea.

    Will never wear a mask no matter what anyone says or asks of you.


    The claim was that 95% of people don't want to wear masks, and the support for the claim was then made based on a situation (outside) when nobody is being asked or even suggested that they should wear a mask.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It doesn't seem as of masks are popular in Ireland. Hardly anyone wearing them.

    They haven't caught on here.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    What has popularity or them "catching on" got to do with anything? Nobody is trying to make some new fashion trend out of the wearing of masks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It does seem like they're just not a thing in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Sconsey




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    The current health advice is here: https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/preventing-the-spread/when-to-wear-face-covering/

    Wear a medical or respirator mask if you are:



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Compared to where? Is there somewhere else in Europe for example where people have really taken to their mask mandate that has been imposed and are enjoying the wearing of masks enthusiastically?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Well I wasn't comparing. All I know is masks are not worn here by the vast majority of people. They are just not a thing here.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    And they are not worn by the vast majority of people anywhere on the planet, in the vast majority of activities they will do in their daily lives... So your statement doesn't really tell us anything.

    You may as well have said that water is wet.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Well I mean in shops and buses etc. People here just not bothered about them.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    So basically the same as the majority of the rest of the planet then.


    What exactly was the point you were trying to make by suggesting that people in Ireland don't care about masks as if it proves something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    I didn't say they didn't care. I just said it's not a thing here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,728 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Trinity College are strongly recommending the wearing of masks for the coming term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    What's the story with masks these days. Still a few around the place who still wear them out and about. I personally don't wear them.

    I was at the dentist recently and had to wear one in the waiting room/reception area for the first time in ages as it's healthcare setting. You still have to wear them pharmacies too officially I believe but no one does.

    Makes no sense that pharmacy staff still wear them for the most part but you can go to the hairdressers/barbers which is far more up close and personal and no one wears one. Covid never ceases to baffle me the magical virus that only seems to affect pharmacy staff and people in dental waiting rooms but not people getting their haircut or travelling on buses/trains/planes now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Dslatt


    Maybe, just maybe the staff in a medical setting have a bit more cop on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Not sure if that's complimenting pharmacy staff and medical receptionists or insulting everyone else that didn't wear a mask pre covid and continues not to wear one now their no longer legally required.

    Personally I don't like deli staff spreading germs all over my sandwich fillings. Perhaps these should be masked too but they're not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 Starmix66


    I've seen pharmacy staff not wearing them, just this week actually, while a few weeks back at this stage I walked into the opticians to find both receptionists facially naked behind the counter.

    They scrambled to get the masks on and when I said don't bother they told me that it was company policy when there was punters in the shop.

    It's not legally required or enforceable, I guess it's all down to the local management what happens on the other side of the counter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The story about masks is wear one anywhere if you want to.

    Nobody will bother you.

    If you are asked to to wear one when availing of a service ie. hairdressing either wear one or go elsewhere.

    In medical settings ie. GP you will be asked to wear one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 Starmix66


    Unfortunately you don't really have a choice about wearing one for the GP... You can't easily shop around for a GP.

    Do you really want to let that growth on the side of your head get bigger, or do you suck it up, wear a mask and get it looked at? Unfortunately you need to wear the mask and get it looked at.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    To answer your question, you just do as you are told.

    Same applies in hospitals or clinics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 Starmix66


    I do as I'm told eventually, but not before pointing out the fact that the mask rules are pointless and not legally enforceable.

    I need to balancing the fact that someone has to get it in the neck for making me wear a mask, versus having the doctor actually see me and not having him / her / them remove a testicle unnecessarily 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I suppose it's the receptionist's time you are wasting rather than the doctor's.

    Probably no great harm in it if you insist but if you did manage to get another doctor you'd most likely meet the same problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    You are a pain in the hole for the doctors (and their staff) to have to deal with, the fact that you cannot follow public health advice without having to be told does not make you the hero you think you are. The health service staff have enough to be doing without having to listen to your armchair-expert opinion on medical best practices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 Starmix66


    Public health advice is just that... advice, it has no legal standing.

    Continuing to wear masks in doctor's surgeries, hospitals, opticians, pharmacies, etc., was Tony Holohan's parting shot when omicron forced him to give in and declare covid over... the man needed to leave a lasting visible legacy after all.

    I'm no hero or armchair expert, the simple fact is there is no legal requirement to wear the mask, yet a lot of these places imply that they are legally required, which is patently untrue.

    I just remind them of the fact every time I'm forced to wear one.

    Pharmacies quietly dropped the requirement to wear masks... yeah, the signs are still there, but no one gives a hoot.

    "No mask, no service" doesn't wash because people can just trot on down the street to the next pharmacy. That doesn't quite work with doctors or hospitals yet seeing as it's a lot more difficult to shop around, and we all like to keep our allocated number of testicles, but sure there's no harm plugging away at them.

    Abuse is an occupational risk for them, maybe they'll grow tired of the low level whinging about masks and just drop that requirement too?

    They have much bigger fish to fry, it's not like you're having a drunken fight with them at 2am after all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Like I said what are doing is probably harmless.

    I will add however this is the first time I have seen a poster self identifying as low level whinger. 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,446 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    I still wear my mask going into shops and the pharmacy still had a sign up use a facemask and hand sanitiser for hands at their entrance.

    My immune system is not the best so will very much continue wearing one when the needs must.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Jesus Christ lad, people go to their doctors when they are sick. It makes perfect sense to wear a mask visiting your doctor. They see loads of patients every day and have families to go home to as well and I'm sure they don't want to pick up whatever illness you have. Not that you care about the person trying to look after you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 Starmix66


    Sure aren't we all low level whingers, why else would we be posting in the covid forum on boards.ie 🤣



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 25 Starmix66


    We didn't wear masks to the doctor before covid, why should we keep wearing them after covid?

    covid was a blip on the radar of humanity that gave people notions, but thankfully that's all in the past now.

    People need to downgrade their expectations back to 2019, in fact they have in everyday life, except to visit the doctor that is...

    No mask, no service.

    I wonder how many people would wear a mask voluntarily to the doctor these days?



Advertisement