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A global recession is on the horizon - please read OP for mod warning

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    How is it not relevant? Is it not relevant that businesses are closing here due to the overly high costs involved in doing business here, Brexit or not? If we had the same cost base as the UK they would not be closing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,530 ✭✭✭dasdog


    From my own experience when I worked there from the mid 00's the FTE to Contractor ratio was roughly 60/40%. When I left I was one of the very few contractors remaining - only FTE's were being hired from 2018.

    There were certain restrictions like access to Windows source code and such we could not touch and the daily rates were good compared to FTE wages so it kind of made sense. I couldn't get a formal reference from them after working my backside off in various divisions for 15 years but have since moved on to better things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    One of the links you put up earlier also said they were closing stores in the UK. Closing 50 if i recall correctly. Only closing 34 stores in Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    They are relocating some to sainburys in store and leaving others as they are . They are closing all in Ireland



  • Administrators Posts: 53,487 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    That's because they have like 700 locations in the UK and only 34 in Ireland. There are no Sainsbury's in Ireland for them to move into.

    They are a UK business. Their Irish offshoot is tiny in comparison.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Regardless of size , they are down the same amount of sales. Some are not moving into Sainsburys but staying as they are. The fact is Ireland's higher costs of doing business has pushed Argos into closing them. I have given you the link a few times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    Yes and they don't have that option to move to a Sainsbury's here. That's why they are talking about rents, costs etc. The same cost-cutting option isn't available to them in this market because Sainsbury's also don't trade here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Once again if 100% of the stores relocated to Sainsburys then there would be merit to the argument but just over half did. There is also a cost involved in moving to within sainsburys , decking it out, staff, electricity etc. Look the link I provided point blank says its due to the costs in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    From the reuters link you posted earlier

    "Its strategy in the UK has been to close most standalone Argos stores, while opening outlets within Sainsbury's supermarkets. However, the group does not have supermarkets in Ireland"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    and the link I put up showing that they are closing in Ireland due to "the trading conditions in Ireland, including rents and the overall cost of doing business here, were the reasons behind the closure."

    https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/64181-argos-to-close-all-of-its-irish-stores



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭brickster69


    I would say Argos was saved in the UK by Sainsbury's buying them and moving all the high street stores into the supermarkets. The space allotted for them is about a quater of the old shops and the parent company is the landlord who gets the rent money instead of paying out to someone else on the high street. They fit one of them in store easily just by making the store isles 20 cm less wide.

    Added to that, the amount of people that go into Sainsbury's to collect a toy or something from Argos and end up spending twice as much on groceries will be crazy.The same goes with click and collect for Ebay at Argos, you walk in to collect a parcel and always end up having a look around and end up buying something you never went in for.

    The only reason any Argos stores in the UK will be closing is that there are no Sainsbury's close by to put them in. The stand alone stores that do stay open will be profitable, all the others just close.

    All roads lead to Rome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    But they've been achieving cost reductions in the UK by moving into sainsburys. They can't do that here because there is no sainsburys so the only option is to close. It's very straightforward



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    OK well then why are there still Argos branches throughout the UK that are not in a Sainsburys supermarket still open, just under half are not in a Sainsbury. Now remember the 2 different markets had the same 20% less in sales. So for some other reason other than making savings by going into a Sainsburys or by making 20% less . Can you explain the rational behind why these outlets are still open throughout the UK while each and every one of Irelands outlets are being closed??



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭brickster69


    In other news. Looks like the US is turning the printing machine back on.


    All roads lead to Rome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭brickster69


    All roads lead to Rome.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,487 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Because Argos UK is very different to Argos Ireland. The 20% reduction is not across the board, there could be many standalone stores in the UK that are performing very well.

    Argos is huge in the UK and tiny here, the scenarios are very different. They could be closing their stores here in order to divert funds to shore up their UK business and keep some of their stores over there open, it would not be surprising if this was the case.

    They are a UK company, the UK market is their bread and butter. Ireland has never been a priority for them, this much is clear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    Maybe because Argos sales in the UK were the highlight of sainsburys Christmas trading update issued last week.

    Just because they haven't closed all their standalone stores in the UK yet doesn't mean that they won't.

    They've already closed hundreds of stores in the UK. Here they're closing 34. Yes it's their whole operation here but overall its a drop in the ocean in the context of the wider group.

    Anyway that's all I've to say on it so not going to engage further.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Sorry it is across the board. Will you stop and think Argos has been in Ireland how long? Your not answering the questions. Why Ireland Why now. Why not 2/3/4/5 years ago or when the virus was rampant? What has happened in the last year or 2 in this country. Argos is tiny here then why is the reports of it closing its outlets been the number one headline on most radio stations news reports and on the News in RTE and will probably pop up on the likes of prime time tonight or tomorrow. I pointed you to the link that said things like rent and other costs are the main reasons for closing in Ireland and proof of that is the non Sainsburys based outlets remaining open in the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    I believe the ones closing correlated to the ones they opened in Sainsburys so that takes care of the closures in the UK. So you believe that Irelands high cost of doing business for an outlet/store had zero to do with closures here? Even do the link I pointed you too details that the unions who are negotiating for the staff said that it was things like rent and other high costs in Ireland which is the reason they are closing in Ireland ? Dont bother engaging any further if you not going to look at the the evidence in front of you



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Rents and trading costs have been higher here since the Celtic Tiger, if not before. So maybe you need to stop and think. Why could they carry those costs before and not now? Because their sales are down due to Amazon hammering them.

    What else happened in the last few years - Brexit. Which imposes logistical costs on their model of supplying the Irish market from the UK.

    Why were so many of their items out of stock on Argos? Lots of people looked to use them during covid for click and collect but gave up on Argos because so many items were out of stock.

    Argos is tiny here relative to their UK operation.

    As for your link, it is proof it was said. That doesn't mean it is actual proof of all the reasons as to why the decision was taken at board room level.

    How does what happened to Argos in Ireland signal a global recession?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Did one of those articles not say that the lease agreements are coming to an end. If that is the case and the Irish operation is losing money what is the point in signing a new lease, especially as the rent will be indexed to inflation no doubt.

    All roads lead to Rome.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,487 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Presumably it has now become clear to them that in this post-Brexit, post-covid world their Irish business model is no longer viable.

    If you are so certain that it's our cost of living that's the issue here, why didn't Argos roll their UK website out to Ireland? The UK site was updated years ago.

    Bear in mind they could have done this without spending a single cent in Ireland. The cost of construction, the cost of rents, the cost of staff etc would have been no factor whatsoever. This would have been a relatively cheap investment that would have improved their customer experience significantly. Remember, Argos is a store whose model is entirely built upon you finding goods on their website or their catalogue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Then why bother saying it if this is not the reason this is the head of the union negotiating the staffs redundancy, its hardly a throwaway comment now it it?


    Hang on now Amazon has been the go to for buying online for how long now??(both Amazon and Ebay) at least the guts of the last decade maybe?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭brickster69




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Yeap feck Argos . The US may default on its debts? Has the US ever done this before?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,497 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Mod - Can we stay broadly on topic please, thread has been going off on some obscure tangents recently. Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    To address the questions, very unlikely and no (aside from some technicalities related to older systems in the 19th and 20th century)

    There's a bunch of anti-debt fundamentalists on Twitter who lose their minds every time a graph moves (in this case the annual US debt ceiling craporama)



  • Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Ozark707



    There was speculation in recent days that the foot might be taken off the pedal in relation to IR rises. This article in the FT seems to suggest otherwise.


    European Central Bank president Christine Lagarde warned that further big rate rises lay ahead in comments later echoed by a top official at the US Federal Reserve. “We shall stay the course until . . . we can return inflation to 2 per cent in a timely manner,” the ECB president said in a panel discussion during the World Economic Forum.


    Lael Brainard, the vice-chair of the Fed, signalled that the US central bank also had more to do to get inflation closer to its 2 per cent target, despite signs that consumer spending is starting to ebb, the labour market is cooling and price pressures have eased.


    https://www.ft.com/content/cf43669d-95b7-4b69-8ed2-c4b683eb7e94



  • Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Ozark707




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭lisasimpson


    Googles parent company latest to announce layoffs 12k worldwide



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