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Solis Hybrid - charge battery using Night rate

1246

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭Ballyv24


    Hi,

    I don't think I can follow the steps in this because my inverter is showing the incorrect time. Once I change to the correct time, it reverts back again within a few minutes.

    Any suggestions on how to fix the time?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    You can't do much about that, apparently the battery SOC drifts are a few days of not being charged and this will keep happening

    I had this many times happen around this time last year when I was not charging from grid and even talked to Solis about it, it is expected behavior and you SHOULD let the grid charge happen or the battery can go to 0 and possible get damaged.

    You can either charge the battery from the grid fully every now and then or charge the battery to 100% and power it off until the good weather comes back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Apologies if this has already been asked but what would the maximum charge be for a battery at night from a solis. I've been assuming that the batteries can charge at 16amps but I saw on another thread people taking about not having enough time to fully charge. I'm getting two 4KwH batteries, I'd assumed I could fully charge in roughly 2.5 hours at night.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    When talking about batteries, people tend to talk in terms of DC, so 50A * 51.2V = 2500kW.

    Depending on your setup, the inverter or the battery could be the bottleneck.

    A 5G Solis Hybrid is rated for 100A charge/discharge, but what people have found is that in reality it derates itself to about 70A. That limits you to 3.5kW.

    What batteries are you getting? You will be limited by the battery charge/discharge rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    A WeCo 4K4 Pro. Not sure how to interpret the figures in this table.

    Because I've two batteries, would is would that allow for better charging times than one big battery?



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    86A * 2 = 172A. You'll likely be limited by the inverter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    So a potential capacity to change at Getting the SOLIS RHI-6k-48ES-5G which has a stated Charge/discharge of 100A, but at 70 I would be limited to 3.6Kwh as you mentioned. I was reading through the batter documentations are there seemed to be a reference to once it gets to 90% the charge current drops to 10A, so 1Kwh. OK so the long and short, I'm still looking at around 2.5 hours to fill both batteries, so fine. Also sounds like there is an advantage to having two batteries over a single larger one.

    I'd hard for me to imagine people running into problems having enough time to charge batteries at night, is this really an issue?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    On a day night meter, there is no issue.

    But if your trying to do it on the smart meter night boosts... It gets tight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    When you have a 20kwh battery it is impossible to charge it 2.5 hrs yeah😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,735 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Depending on where your batteries are stored, the cold weather can impact charging. That was my experience with Pylontech anyway.


    On a seperate note that tiny window of "cheap" rates the smart plans offer is a joke. Give me a decent night rate (full 9 hrs) and I'd have no problem moving to a smart meter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭islander222


    Followed the assistance on this thread and charged my batteries last night. Not on night rate but had a planned power outage today and now successfully running my office and WiFi off the battery via a couple of extension leads.... Battery was 70% full at time of cut off and 4 hours later its at 62% (even after boiling the kettle for lunch!)... good to have an idea of how long we'll get out of it with the basics (Wifi, TV/monitors, odd cup of tea etc)...

    Super added advantage and convenience to have the battery with Solar...

    Always wanted to test the theory out, particular in advance of winter storms - thought process is if we can manage to have the battery's fairly well charged just before a bad storm then we can keep the WiFi and TV's going in case of an unplanned outage - i.e. keeping the kids happy!

    Also found the following useful: https://blog.jonsdocs.org.uk/2022/08/07/solis-hybrid-inverter-charging-from-the-grid/#:~:text=As%20we%20want%20to%20allow,during%20your%20configured%20time%20periods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭con747


    I have my 10kwh batteries set to stop discharging @30% so I can use that in case of power cuts in my area, 7 in total this year latest one was yesterday. So I always have 20% at least to get through one.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Delber


    Hi Just following on from this I attempted to set night charge using Jonsdoc manual this at the weekend but I don't seem to have the option of Self use under Storage Energy Set Function

    I have sent an email to solis support to have my inverter firmware updated as this maybe my issue its currently Model no F8 Software version 280016 its a

    Can anyone shed light on this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 46 irewestlad


    Has anyone charged a PureDrive 5kWh battery from a Solis inverter at night time? What were the best settings to use? From reading this thread, sounds like it’s best the limit the A to prolong lifetime



  • Registered Users Posts: 9 Oisin4343


    Solis Inverter 7Kwh panels with 2 x 5kwh Puredrive batteries - I have set up to charge batteries at night rate, however when showing 100% charged only approx 5kwh register on the phone app even though I have 2 x 5Kwh batteries.

    1. Can both batteries be charged off the grid during the night to provide full power in both batteries? (maybe leaving small space for PV charge in summer time hours)
    2. Can both batteries discharge as required from 8am - 11pm during the day to maximise gain?
    3. Can the solis inverter need to be set up to kick in if there is a power cut - system surrently not set up for this even if charge in batteries. Installer says / would not advise on using the PV system as a backup in times of ESB outages?

    Any comment advice appreciated - only just have the system installed so a novice to this area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭con747


    Both batteries should charge if connected together correctly, you can set the charge time to end when you want the batteries to start supplying the power. You can get an EPS (emergency power supply) attached to the inverter to use an extension lead for small power loads in power cuts or get a change over switch and put certain loads on it to use sockets and lights. YouTube have all the videos you need to see how things are set up.

    I have a double socket beside my inverter now but waiting for a change over switch to be installed because of regular power cuts where I live.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭jkforde


    1. yes, the setup should be that the inverter should see both batteries as one, what does the inverter itself show on its panel for the battery? 5kwh or 10kwh? are the batteries properly linked?

    2. both batteries should act as one balanced 10kwh battery so leave the discharge time values as default in the Self Use settings.

    3. AC or DC coupled system? it can be done using the Backup port on the base of the inverter. others on here have it setup but realistically how many power cuts do we get per year? 1 or 2 around here anyhow (rural Galway).

    🌦️ 6.7kwp, 45°, SSW, mid-Galway 🌦️

    "Since I no longer expect anything from mankind except madness, meanness, and mendacity; egotism, cowardice, and self-delusion, I have stopped being a misanthrope." Irving Layton



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭yankinlk




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    I had the same issue, after monitoring for a couple days I was confident on.y 5kws of capacity was being used. Turns out there was an issue with one of the batteries being stuck in a firmware upgrade loop. Had to get onto the installer who got onto the manufacturer to do a remote reset.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    So i've just got my battery installed after a few weeks of only having panels, and was able to charge it up last night (had to set the correct time on the inverter, and for some reason at 7am this morning it was discharging the battery to run the house (even though I had it set to 8am).

    Anyways, i've a 99% full battery at the moment. The house is drawing 0.439kW from what I can see in the solis app, but i'm also pulling 0.23kW from the grid. Only 0.182kW is coming from the battery (and a tiny bit from solar to make up the difference). What gives? Why isn't my battery powering the house?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    The Solis app updates every five minutes so it's useless at showing what's happening right this moment. You need the Shelly's you mentioned on the other thread for that.

    The over time stats for Solis will be collected continuously, in theory, but only transmitted over a fixed period.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Now it shows that i'm exporting from my battery back to the grid! What? Zappi UI confirms, 2.2kW going back to the grid from the battery



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,213 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    It's a snapshot. You need to look at the inverter screen to get an accurate picture of what's happening.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    It's an accurate snapshot though. Zappi (live view of my system) agrees that i'm sending 2kW back to the grid). Battery is draining quickly too. It's consistent.

    I set the "Allow Charge from Grid" settings on the inverter yesterday. The discharge time is from 9am to 11pm. From what I read, that's just when power is allowed to flow out of the battery. I'm guessing I need to look at the "backflow power"?

    It is very important to properly configure backflow power. Please review the article Export Power Set on how to do this. 




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    You should not set the discharge time, only charge time. Did the installer not set this up for you? Setting the discharge time is like setting forced discharge. unset that.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    I'll try that. No, they did not.

    I thought from this:

    This determines how much power should be allowed to leave the battery during the discharge window

    That didn't sound like "we will discharge at this time"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    During this window, the battery will discharge power continuously at whatever rate you set it to. The system is not smart enough to vary the discharge rate to match the consumption. Therefore, it is recommended to first determine about how much power is consumed during the hours at which the battery will be discharging. This determines how much power should be allowed to leave the battery during the discharge window.

    It's right there in point 1. It's important to read the full guide not just subsections if you're messing about with any of these settings. It's basically a mode that allows you to save your battery for when you're paying the highest rate and then feed the battery into the house, any excess will be exported so you would need to vary the discharge current to minimize export. For most people you should just set the charging time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Summer2020


    Don't set a discharge time. It was explained to me by the installer that this results in battery dumping to the grid



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,213 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes, discharge time means "Discharge to the grid at this time, regardless of what else is happening". It's not to be used, unless you are scheduling FIT/CEG dumping.

    Sounds like it's not set up correctly. You need to be in default self use mode, never set the discharge time, only set a charge time for night rate. Then the rest of the time let the inverter do its thing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 894 ✭✭✭higster


    Have asked in another chat. AM charging battery from grid 2 to 4am. Stats are showing the 5kW as Generation and Self Use on daily stats and on both monthly and daily stats page the energy imported is wrong (its seeing the 5kW as imported I think).


    See below, today a great example as real solar generation is practically zero at 0.3kW but showing 5kW as self Use and 16kW imported (where in reality its 21. Anyone know a way of correcting (have a S3 data logger)?






  • Moderators Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    That did it for me. Thanks all! Now where's the sun?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    thats just the way solis cloud displays the data. Its a pain and there is no fix for that unfortunately. We have talked about this problem in a few threads around here - hoping solis will fix it eventually.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Curious one. My inverter display shows X going out from the battery, but much less going into the house. What's that about?




  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    That seems huge, could that be right?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭Big Lar


    From my reckoning the inverter is 130w just to run then conversion losses after that



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    That seems consistent

    i had assumed inverter load was in the house stat but maybe not. That's not so bad so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,213 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yup,mine is similar. There are a fair amount of losses to run the inverter and to invert from DC to AC. You'll see less losses if running direct on solar.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    I wonder would you just not see that power.

    Eg, inverter uses 100w to stay on.

    When running from solar, inverter gets "first dibs" and you never see that power.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Maybe that's exactly whats happening? The battery discharge I think is coming from the battery itself and the house consumption is coming from the power meter at the consumer unit, so the difference would be what the inverter is using and loosing? Makes a little more sense now.

    Has anyone had any luck tapping into the power meter at the CU? I've a Eastron SD120CT. Been thinking about trying to get direct access to to the data coming back from that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,213 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    There's two separate things.

    Power to run inverter - yes you may not see it if the inverter is running on solar

    DC to AC inverter losses - I get the feeling that the solis (the only inverter I have with a OSD) experiences more losses going from battery DC to grid AC, as opposed to Solar DC to immediate grid AC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 aleesi



    While not mentioned in the datasheet the inverter also needs power to run. I've observed 100-150Wh needed to run the Solis depending on house load. But it could take much more if for instance charging the battery from the grid at 100A, as the efficiency is 95-99% (DC-AC efficiency), if you take the 95% for the worse case scenario (charging at 100A or putting 5kWh in the battery) you have to add an extra 250Wh to the 100-125Wh so the Solis could take 350-400Wh while working at full blast (from / to the battery).

    If we talk about Solar PV (tipically 300-400V DC) to 230AC, the efficiency is much better as the DC coming from the panels is typically 300-400VDC, conversion from DC to AC are much more efficient when the DC voltage is much higher than the AC (400DC vs 230AC), for the battery we start with 50VDC much lower than 230AC and therefore not as efficient.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Thanks! Certainly seeing a couple of hundred W more drawn from the battery than is being consumed by the house. Currently 233W drawn, but the battery is supplying 448W.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭con747


    That's the way it is, I have a house load now @ 162w but 278w coming from the battery. That's real time, not via the app because my inverter is beside my kitchen.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Thanks for confirming. This is making creating a nice representation in home assistant a touch difficult. Using the "tesla style solar power card". Calculating my "solar to grid" power is a bit difficult, because Solar generated - house consumption - battery output is currently saying a couple of hundred W going out, when in reality it's just being used by the inverter itself.

    Thanks though, i'll figure it out eventually.

    https://github.com/reptilex/tesla-style-solar-power-card



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Are you using the pysolarman in home assistant?

    I'll need to dig up the register, I don't think it's in the default config but there is another value, BMS Volt/ Current /Power. And this value is supplied by the battery over the CAN bus.

    I'm not logging the inverter AC power.. but I am monitoring the Volt and current, so that can be calculated.

    I trust the BMS value as Ive verified it on my BMS with a clamp meter.

    BMS Power : 893w

    Battery power according to Solis : 973w

    Solis AC power : 780w.

    Yeah.. i dont know where solis is picking up its battery power

    (all this data pulled from the inverter using the pysolarmanv5 every 10ish seconds.)

    There is also a DC Power which is the Solar only output.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 444 ✭✭alan kelly


    Hey Folks,

    On reviewing some of the comments I looked at my battery settings and the times set by the engineer.

    Im on the Electric Ireland night rate, 12p from 2-4am and 20p from 11pm to 8am.

    My original settings are below along with what the engineer set it at. It doesn't make sense to me so I changed the times for the battery to charge from 2am to 8am. Am I correct or was the Engineer correct ?





  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    The discharge time should be set to 00:00 to 00:00.

    What you set it to is fine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 444 ✭✭alan kelly


    Thanks, does the charge and discharge limits look ok ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭DC999


    I didn’t notice the size of your battery. If you’re starting when the night rate kicks in (11pm you said), check it’s not charged before the cheap 2-4am slot. If it is, you’ve overpaying. So could start at 2am (to get 12c). Then stop when night rate ends (which is remainder at 20c). 



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