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Transport Aircraft

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,910 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Well if it was to see Santa, maybe it was to ask nicely for a CASA?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,950 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Well feck it, if Santa always delivers, make it an A400M.



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭tippilot


    The lessons from Kabul need to be applied to this acquisition, not just from the point of view of the actual need for such an aircraft - which has been well demonstrated over the years anyway.

    When operating in even semi-contested conditions, the need to bring your own security detail and all their gear, medical staff and gear, members of Dept of foreign affairs for passport processing, aircraft technician + consumables etc limits the useful payload of people you can extract. Can it be done in multiple hops? Not if the aircraft is your defacto base of operations/communications hub/traige centre. Can you expose your team to having no means of immediate extraction if things go south?

    In those terms, I would say the need for a minimum of two aircraft is rather obvious if it's a limited capacity aircraft like the C295.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    With the learjet due to be retired soon and a new transport casa on the way, what will be the replacement ? a similar type jet or could we see a Combi version of an A320 or a boeing ?

    It would be an easier sell for the government with a combi as they could say it be used as troop transport, Medical evac etc as well as MATS



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Similar type, unfortunately. A larger aircraft restricts many of the airports currently used by the Lear. Expect something along the Dassault Falcon line.

    Troop transport by charter, at present is cheaper than having a small airliner sitting on the ramp waiting to bring 8 people to New York for most of the year, except when it has to do chalk rotations, 4 or 6 times a year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,910 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Remember how that went when Bertie tried getting a larger jet?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Ah but that was sold as berties private jet, If you got one like the germans airbus it would be no issue if you sold it to the public about all the roles it plays

    https://simpleflying.com/german-air-force-second-airbus-a321lr/



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Apart from the clipper version of the 73 that the US use is there any other military version in use?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,910 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Want to bet? The minute its said with anything "Government" related, it will just be seen as "the Government Jet" no matter what it does or could do. Instead it will be just "sure what do we need something like that for, Fecking FFG having Notions, how many houses could we build for that!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    From now on the state just say nothing and buy the gear end of story. The usual crew will whinge and get 5 minutes coverage. But 90% of the public dont care



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Very sensible point of view Roady. Stuff the brown rice and sandals brigade and just carry on buying serious kit!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,910 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Because that’s not the way procurement works? As for people not caring, if/when we spend €200+ million on the MRV I would be stunned if the opposition don’t make hay out of it…



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The 4th pc12 and this 3rd casa were not got or about to be bought through standard procurement

    The main opposition party is calling for primary radar and thats not cheap


    Whos left to complain?




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,910 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Wait until an actual price is put on any purchase. The PC 12 was so minor a spend that nobody would notice, we have no idea what price the CASA will end up at, nor what the Radar may end up being. Either way procurement doesn’t happen in a vacuum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,950 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The third C295 in military transport trim is by no means a certainty.

    But it does come to pass, then its most likely it will become the primary carrier of troops and personal gear to UN deployments and the Government will get a new long-range business jet for MATS and other State business.

    I agree with Dohvolle that its likely to be a European made Dassault Falcon. Probably the 8X.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09




    Mexicos newest Casa C-295 taking direct hits from the Sinaloa cartel. Worthy investment



  • Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Yakov P. Golyadkin



    So, we're getting another C295? Or is my ignorance of such matters showing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I am shocked and sad about this. I cant belive Airbus looked for a deposit!.

    With a 2025 delivery date will we see a 235 stripped out and continue on as a temp transport?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Get a grip. Why wouldn't they look for a deposit? They aren't a charity. The first 295 will be arriving shortly, the 2nd not long after this year. It will take a while to get both these aircraft operational. Meanwhile, the need for Maritime patrol continues. Would expect the CN235 will be withdrawn as each 295 enters service.

    Because the 3rd will be a standard utility model, once it arrived it can enter directly into service, as by then there will already be plenty of pilots current on type..



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,950 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    All new acquisitions are positive I suppose, but really I feel that the perfect is the enemy of the good here.

    The reason given for a 295 is to avoid conversion training, but the rub is that the lead time is 2 years.

    Personally, I'd want an aircraft on fleet ASAP, in the current global geopolitical circumstances, and would go after a good second hand C-130 for immediate procurement. Imagine the amount of conversion training you could do in two years....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Get a grip? Would you calm down and lighten up.

    A standard 295 is around 30 million if the article is correct and it iis going to cost 50 million it must have some extra equipment and a full life time service contract like the other 2

    It looks like you maybe right about MM



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    MM ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭mupper2


    According to the lads more on the pulse AC wise it'll come with a full on DAS system..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Surely a small transport like this has very limited capability for carrying vehicles. Anyone know what load it could carry safely?



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭mupper2


    Couple of the Wing's MRZR's, bikes and the teams...not bad like, you always want more but this is a large scale up of what they could move previously and gives s some foundations to build on...hopfully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,950 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    A 295M cannot carry any wheeled vehicles currently in service with the DF, save for motorbikes, ATVs and the odd utility Hyundai hatchback.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Hmm. I thought as much. Still, I suppose it could accommodate some artillery pieces / AA guns / HMG's and the like, if needed for the mission.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    You generally wheeled vechiles to move the artillery weapons. I don’t think this purchase has been thought through throughly, i would say some sort of discount was arranged because there is noway this has been a long thought out purchase. The ACMAT wouldn’t even fit into this aircraft which is one of the most important pieces of equipment the rangers use and I’m assuming they will be the main users of this aircraft given the last two years. Airbus used the Irish governments knowledge of nothing against them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    As per Ken Foxes FOI that one of the posters linked here in the past, It is the air corps that have being pushing for extra 295s and not hercs or A400s and not a case of the state saying this is good enoght for you.

    Maybe the senior managment in the air corps know what they can get it



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  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭mupper2


    The standard air mobile vehicle for the Wing now is the Polaris MRZR. You could fit 2-3 of them in a C295 plus the team to man them. The ACMAT and the replacement for the Ford SRV's are a little beefy even for a Herc to carry more then 1 or 2 anyway..



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