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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,734 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There could be an element of that but it's not something I necessarily disagree with based on the below rationale:

    "It's about a part of the world where we have concerns about transparency," he told national broadcaster ABC.

    Asked if the restrictions were politically motivated, Chalmers said he didn't "see it precisely like that".

    "There certainly is a lot of concern around the global health community about the transparency and quality of data that we see out of China on Covid."

    https://www.barrons.com/news/australia-defends-covid-tests-for-china-arrivals-01672787109

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,791 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Apologies I had to run some errands. Ah yeah, I know all about how chaotic the Indian response was. Clueless. PM Modi is a clown at the best of times. He put his people under needless duress. We all remember the poor Indians walking hundreds of miles to their home villages because he shut down public transport with zero notice.

    You might remember the Indian MP who told all his supporters that you could cure Covid by sitting in muddy puddles half naked and blowing into a sea conch. I shitt you not. The fool got Covid soon after. There were all kinds of health 'gurus' spouting nonsense to confuse the gullible Indians.

    In contrast the Chinese would be a lot more organised and efficient. Given their ultra cautious approach throughout, I doubt they would relax restrictions if there was a more deadly variant emerging. Don't all pandemics end with the mild strain? Is it really that feasible that Omicron will mutate back into a deadlier strain 2 years on?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,734 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The Chinese seemed to end the restrictions due to public backlash rather than as part of a roadmap. I think the regime wanted to maintain the ultra cautious approach - probably due to abundance of caution, an element of social control but could it be due to something else they were trying to keep a lid on?

    It's so not much about a directly deadlier strain evolving necessarily but a strain that evades vaccination \ prior infection immunity - which would indirectly be deadlier.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    RTE goes nuts I'm paying for them for this crap




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Wow, a P Value of .001 on a study of 50,000 people.

    It'll be interesting to see how they debunk this one!!!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,932 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951




  • Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭ Estrella Eager Cereal


    That footage from Limerick is unfortunately the situation there for many, many years. It's made a 100 times worse by the current situation but the problem is underinvestment in the hospitals and it's particularly bad in Limerick, and also to a degree in Cork. There re problems elsewhere in the country too obviously, but those two just stand out as particularly extreme. They're rapidly growing cities, but woefully served by the HSE and the political world stands over this and has done for years. Adequate investment simply has not happened and that's the result of it.

    It's a disgrace and should be an embarrassment, but for some reason it's been normalised. We are a wealthy, Western European country with enormous resources at our disposal but for whatever reasons, we aren't investing properly in health properly and the projects that were big scale have been white elephants - the National Children's Hospital fiasco in particular stands out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,037 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Chinese stated aims and actions should not be taken at face value as Communist dictatorships, and this Communist dicatorship in particular, are made up of habitual liars.

    The most recent lockdowns in China could be cover for a military buildup, or a consolidation of Xi's rule, or something else.



  • Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭ Estrella Eager Cereal


    I have some Chinese friends and the comments that are coming from China are largely that public think they were lied to about the effectiveness of the Chinese vaccine. It seems to have been woefully underperforming compared to the western mRNA jabs and they feel that drove the extreme caution and will probably now result in a very extreme wave.

    They got deeply political about their own vaccine and wouldn't use anything not developed domestically.

    Also the way an authoritarian state handles things like this is just going to be weird anyway. China defaults to control / comply stuff in a way that no democracy could sustain and that plays into the political and bureaucratic culture of the country. They were using social credit systems and all sorts of technological based tracking of people and so on long before COVID came along.

    There was also a sense that the Chinese Government was going to demonstrate to the world that their way was superior to what they tend to talk about as being western, democratic chaos. A lot of the insanity coming from the US in particular was playing straight into that as the conspiracy theorists over there ranted and raved very loudly and it looked for a while like there was total mayhem going on.

    China's approach to this was never going to work as it's a virus, not some kind of ideological threat to the state's power structures.

    Ultimately the Chinese population got fed up with the approach and pushed back very hard, and that's why you're seeing it open up so dramatically. I wouldn't be surprised if the removal of all rules could also be a "well.. see! I told you so!" type response too. They seem to have gone from one extreme to the other without any step-down plan.

    Also if you think the Chinese population in general have great trust in the government, you're kidding yourself. They basically tolerate the government as long as it's delivering. They don't have a democratic structure, but they are loud and quite capable of pushing back to some degree when things get weird enough. So, the government responds to what it sees as discontent rather than there being any notion of democratic accountability. It's a bit like the relationship between an absolute monarch and their subjects.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,037 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'Peer review is a relatively recent innovation in the history of scientific publication. The first journal (which is still in print!) was launched in 1665 by the Royal Society in London, (Phil Trans R Soc B), while peer review as we know if began in the mid 1970s.'

    Peer review is essentially an evaluation by a committee of other scientists prior to publishing. Is committee evaluation fundamental to science? No of course not. Its just a bureaucratic mechanism which has been agreed upon, for now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,932 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    We should all be well used to being lied to by our politicians and governments.

    China is no exception.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    I posted that study last week. I think its the 3rd one to show such an association. It's fingers in ears about it though. Isn't it weird how some people literally will not hear a bad word said against these vaccines. Is that what science is supposed to be, blind faith?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    A study of 50,000 people - 'not good enough, dont believe it'. Bivalent vaccine tested on a handful of mice - 'grand, when can I take it?!'. Totally makes sense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    Another possibility could be that the immune systems get ‘messed up’ by a cumulative effect of mRNA vaccinations, making every subsequent vaccine less and less effective and/or waning faster.

    it is interesting to see that the older the cohort, the lower the effectiveness of the bivalent vaccine.

    Since the bivalent mRNA was developed for a known strain of BA4/5 virus, one would expect that it’s efficacy would be in a range of 90% as such was apparently the case with the first vaccines. The argument that has been repeated at nausea by the vaccine zealots here was that vaccines were extremely effective if it was not for the virus to always changing into a new type and thus ‘dodging’ the vaccines. Such argument does not hold the water in this case as it is a BA4/5 vaccine that proves to be ineffective in preventing the very same virus strain it was developed for.

    vaccine effectiveness of 30% would not pass the original criteria for covid-19 vaccine approval.

    Post edited by walus on

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Ba 4/5 are already out of date though, in the US at least with the BQ.1 strain becoming dominant in November, and soon to be followed by XBB. They are always one step behind. Remember when mrna vaccines were great because they could be updated super fast?Another failed promise



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    You are right, it is not just Omicron that was taken into consideration, other variants came into play in the last few weeks of the study. from that paper:

    “The circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 varied over the course of the study. The majority of infections in Ohio were caused by the BA.4 or BA.5 lineages of the Omicron variant during the first 10 weeks of the study, based on SARS-CoV-2 variant monitoring data available from the Ohio Department of Health. By December, the BQ.1, BQ.1.1, and BF.7 lineages accounted for a substantial proportion of the infections.”

    However there were other publications that focused solely on the BA4/5 infections when evaluating the bivalent vaccine effectiveness and results were very much in the 20-40% range (age dependent, lower for elderly).

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,734 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Your post is a gish gallop of half truths and misinformation.

    I have already posted the caveats about the study - it is a preprint and has limitations which plausibly could result in confounding results given the small sample size of people who actually received the bivalent vaccine.

    There is a general trend of vaccines being less effective in older groups, not just covid or mRNA vaccine related or specific to bivalent.

    The original study results were based on symptomatic infections in a time of limited test capacity. This study is based on self reported positive tests which includes antigen tests and asymptomatic cases. It could just as easily be showing a trend that people who engage with boosters and also more likely to engage with testing.

    Vaccine effectiveness versus infection is only one aspect of its effectiveness. The primary benefit being stated for bivalent vaccines is protection against severe covid and hospitalisation.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    I presume you have a peer reviewed paper that provides clear data supporting your statement that bivalent vaccines are very effective in preventing Covid and hospitalisation?

    Happy to read it

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,734 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The world's leading experts e.g. the CDC have authorised it on the basis of clinical trials and studies, and that was one of their considerations.

    The main point however is that it is misleading to compare the basis for approval of the initial vaccine with boosters, on multiple levels. One is that it was approved on a different basis for effectiveness. The other being that due to the high levels of vaccination and prior immunity, you were not going to match the initial results for effectiveness versus severe covid. Therefore the approval metric is not the same.

    Antibody studies were used as the basis for effectiveness in conjunction with studies for earlier vaccine versions.

    Specific studies here:

    https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/providers/cdc-bivalent-vaccine-cuts-risk-covid-hospitalization-half

    The bivalent COVID-19 vaccine got two thumbs-up with the release of studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), one of which says that the booster can cut the risk of contracting severe COVID-19 by 57%.

    Another study says that the bivalent vaccine reduces the risk of hospitalization from COVID-19 for those 65 and older by 83% compared to the unvaccinated, and by 73% compared to individuals who’ve gotten at least two doses of the original monovalent vaccines.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    COVID hospital numbers took another big dip today. They're definitely trending downwards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭US3


    Underinvestment are you mad. We have one of the best funded health systems per head in the world!!

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭US3


    There's a difference between science and "the science" .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    The study authors had this to say about people who had more doses being more likely to test:


    "This potential effect should be somewhat mitigated in our healthcare cohort because one needs a NAAT to get paid time off, providing a strong incentive to get a NAAT if one tested positive at home. Even if one assumes that some individuals chose not to follow up on a positive home test result with a NAAT, it is very unlikely that individuals would have chosen to pursue NAAT after receiving the bivalent vaccine more so than before receiving the vaccine, at rates disproportionate enough to affect the study’s finding"


    Also, they weren't old. The participants were employees of the Cleveland clinic and the majority young and healthy. This is noted. Interesting how even people who work in healthcare mainly aren't interested in another vaccine dose huh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭jimmybobbyschweiz


    Christ, the IT trying to drum up fear again. This is not "concerning", it is still Omicron. Absolute scut.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭walus


    There is science and there is an illusion of science.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,770 ✭✭✭Xander10


    The Indo has it splashed as main story.

    Time to keep getting back on with living as normal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,830 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    HPSC confirm Kraken variant of Covid19 has been identified in Ireland, not sure what the symptoms of this variant are, if in doubt or nervous just mask up and hand sanitise

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,559 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Anyone know if the current booster program uses the updated vaccine or the original?



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  • Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Management and GPs are back from Christmas holidays now and numbers have fell off a cliff already. COVID numbers are tiny.

    A lot of panic and hysteria over nothing.



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