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To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Is it selfish to not want people to be allowed to smoke on a bus? Or not drink and drive?

    So how is it selfish to look for others to wear masks, if you think they reduce the risk to you and others?

    Use of such public facilities comes with rights as well as responsibilities.

    It's not about making them "feel safe", it's about reducing the risk in an essential shared space - such as public transport, medical settings.

    And therefore reducing the strain on services which all of us may depend on - hospital and medical services.

    They're not being forced to wear them in their own homes.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People don't want to wear masks. You can see that by the lack of people wearing masks.

    So if you want to force an entire population to do something against their will so you can feel safer, that is selfish.


    COVID and flu are very mild illnesses. To compare them to drink driving is frankly bizarre. But then, you did say that COVID is worse than cancer so...

    Simple question, based on your post, are you supportive of a mask mandate? Is that something that you want to see? Would it be permanent keeping in mind that COVID is not going anywhere?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Russman


    I wouldn't necessarily be in favour of a mandate, although I probably found mask wearing the least annoying of all the measures since 2020, but where does one draw the line between rights and responsibilities ?

    If forcing someone to wear a mask can be described as selfish, isn't it also selfish if that same someone is going to work on a packed bus while coughing and spluttering all over the place and not taking a measure that might help others ? or going into an office while sick ?

    If anything the back and forth on the covid threads for the last 3 years has shown that ultimately everyone is selfish from a certain point of view.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There you go again "feel safer." It's not about "feeling safer". So, how about responding to the actual points I made.

    People don't want to do things that are 'hassle', but do so when necessary. Even if begrudgingly.

    Covid is not a very mild illness, across the full range of what it can do. It is mild for some. That is not the same thing. To call covid a very mild illness, without qualification, is utter nonsense. I can't believe someone is still coming out with this thoroughly discredited #JustTheFluBro nonsense at this point.

    I compared it to drink driving as a public safety measure, which is an entirely valid comparison. Was it selfish to not want to encounter drunk drivers? Was it selfish to not want to encounter passive smoking on a bus? It's just irrelevent semantic games. It was brought in for sound public health reasons.

    I said Covid represented a greater threat to public health systems ability to function than cancer, and I stand over that. It is reflected in the action of every major health authority in the world's reaction.

    I support a mask mandate, as an option, as and when the proper authorities deem them necessary. It is their call.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What point did you make that you want me to reply to?

    You just posted a bunch of nonsense about supporting a mask mandate.


    There is no justification at all for such a thing unless you want to start removing all kinds of freedoms from people simply to reduce risk.

    Maybe you'd also be supportive of that...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Are we seriously comparing drink driving to throwing a bit of cloth over your face.

    If you are drink driving you are highly likely to cause an accident that can seriously cause injury to people or kill yourself and multiple other people.

    If you are not wearing a mask you have a miniscule chance of killing yourself or anyone else.

    What a nonsense comparison and how can anyone keep a straight face trying to make that comparison.



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Imagine if every driver in the country got locked tonight and jumped in the car... We'd likely have one of the biggest nights of deaths in the countries history.

    Imagine if no one wore a mask on public transport. Life would carry on as normal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Its an entirely valid comparison re the about selfishness angle some posters are obsessed with.

    How many drink driving incidents actually lead to accidents? Of those just over the limit?

    Its about reducing risk in intention.

    When you look at the numbers of people travelling daily on public transport, it becomes a numbers game.

    The main point you are disputing therefore really is not about motivation 'selfishness' but risk. Which shows the hollowness of the entire 'selfishness' nonsense when it is really about assessment of risk and risk reduction which is in question. There seems to be some mythical tipping point where being concerned about the risk suddenly makes it selfish.

    Rather pointed no one disputed my comparison with banning smoking on buses. So pretty obvious I have shown up the whole 'selfishness' aspect to be without foundation and we have precedence for mask mandates as a public health measure when deemed necessary. The premise has been rejected and refuted.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Deranged!! I know you told me to stop replying to you...



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I work 100% remotely. I want all vehicles banned off the roads with immediate effect. I don't care about impacting the entire population. It reduces risk and is better for the environment. People will just have to begrudgingly deal with it. It doesn't bother me too much.

    I'm not selfish at all though. It's simply about reducing risk.

    I also want alcohol, cigarettes and sugar banned immediately. And lots of other things. It's simply about reducing risk...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nobody was banned from driving or smoking.

    Just their conduct regulated in use of same in shared public spaces.

    If you want to drive on public roads wear a seatbelt and have an insured and roadworthy vehicle.

    In a similar vein - nobody under mask mandates is banned from using public transport once they adhere to the required measure.

    Your own posts - comparing it to banning all vehicles off the road - demonstrate how ridiculous this entire line of argument is.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Your argument is that it's all about reducing risk.

    Theres lots of things we can do to reduce risk but we don't as the risk/reward doesn't warrant it. Like wearing masks for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Other people see it as warranted. You say it is miniscule. I say it is not given the number of people daily in settings which come in scope of mask mandates in shops buses or hospitals. And the cost is negligible.

    Its about the risk reward and the dispute is over the relative balance.

    People in good faith can debate and dispute that.

    But you go a step further which is completely without merit or foundation and attack those who judge the risks balance differently as not merely in error but wrong. Motivated by selfishness or others have alluded to worse motivations.

    This is not debating in good faith.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tell us why is it warranted? Are people dying from catching COVID on public transport? Are hospitals overwhelmed more than normal?


    Also remember, hospitals got overwhelmed in 2020 and 2021 with a mask mandate. So its not even likely it would make any impact at all.

    Where is the reward? Sounds like it would just make people miserable with no benefit other than those that religiously believe in the things



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Religiously? There you go again. Unable to express a point without trying to delegitimise the opposing view. I am following the science. I reject your slur as without merit or foundation.

    The evidence for masks and how covid spreads via respiratory droplets has been cited on the thread.

    And doubling down with a strawman about being overwhelmed. Versus 'any impact'. It is a numbers game not the either or you present.

    Its not for me to say it is for the authorities to make the call and judge if it is warranted.

    And really any of your venting here is irrelevent. They will make the call. And if they decide that they have my full support and the public will go along, begrudgingly perhaps but as they have done in previous mandates.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We have vaccines for COVID and flu for those that want them. People are entitled to wear masks if they want to.

    The hospitals have been absolutely fine since the restrictions and mask mandate were dropped.

    It's possible they'll get a bit busy for the next 3 weeks as they always do at this time of year, it's nothing to panic about.


    So a mask mandate is absolutely not warranted whatsoever and our government agrees. People like you just have to accept that even though it's clear you'd love them to change their minds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,211 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    The national crisis management team within the HSE is not the same as saying there's a national emergency team.

    The HSE team is for within the HSE, its nothing near the same thing. The group the other poster mentioned is made up by them



  • Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Loved Leo's message to the HSE yesterday as he reminded them that we won't be issuing a mask mandate and they've never had a bigger budget so deal with it. Exactly what we need.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Things like increased budgets and mask mandates are distractions that will never solve the problem. Outside of a level 5 lockdown, the only thing that will stop the hospitals being overrun is increased capacity, which means building more hospitals and extensions and then staffing them. Too difficult, therefore there are not even plans to do this. Instead government will blame the HSE and the people every winter as a distraction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    ICU isn't overrun ATM is it ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    I see the usual COVID spam bots are back and stronger than ever 😁. Still posting the same nonsense for how long now lads? 3 years? One would think you've got on with your lives by now.. Since you were the ones calling for it.. It's actually entertaining you can't let it go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭dalyboy




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭xhomelezz




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    Anyway, happy Christmas to all. I hope you'll have a nice Christmas Eve and enjoy the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    I see you are still adding absolutely nothing to the discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    There's no discussion on this very thread for a long time. In case you've missed it.

    Only answering to your post, cuz want to wish you merry Christmas too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Happy Xmas everyone and don’t forget to sit granny beside an open window tomorrow, mitigate risk an all that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    I'm not even letting her in, she can stay out in the haggart!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    One for the mask mandate advocates. Tips for eating the xmas dinner 😆😆. It really can save you from getting disabled 😉




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