Exploitation and young workers

Hellrazer · 13-12-2022 8:09pm #1

Looking for a bit of advice with something.

My young teenager (18) started working while in 3rd level for a well known group of pubs as a lounge person and also serving at the bar.

Now they work "7 to closing" or " 8 till closing" but Ive noticed a bit of a piss take from the establishment.

They are all asked to clock out at 3.00 am but then are asked to do "clean up"

Last weekend for example it was 5.30am when they got home - of course all of this is unpaid. Ive looked back at the last few months payslips and it seems to be a nice little earner for this pub.

Usually 2 hours clean up x 5 staff members = 10 hours unpaid per night.

How would I go about reporting this as its seriously getting on my nerves not to mention the illegality of it.

Allinall · 13-12-2022 8:11pm

When they clock out they should just go home.

What are the pub going to do?

Augme · 13-12-2022 8:31pm

Tell him to leave when he clocks out. Or else insist to be paid for the clean up. Its a good opportunity for your son to learn to speak him for himself, rather than relying on you to do it for him.

Pauliedragon · 13-12-2022 8:32pm

That's complete bullshit OP but unfortunately all too common in hospitality. I would start by keepng records of the clock out time vs finishing time. If you want to make an official complaint the WRC is your place but it's drawn out as the 1st thing they'll say is try to resolve with the employer. Paid by the hour you get paid until you finish it's black and white. I'd be getting out of there as fast as I could if there is anything else available in the area.

L1011 · 13-12-2022 8:35pm

If you're hourly, you clock out when you finish work, not when the employer wants you to. There are tens of thousands of hospitality jobs available, they'll find another in a heartbeat.

Time to leave the job.

Jim_Hodge · 13-12-2022 8:41pm

I'd echo raising it with the owner and leave if it's not sorted. Any chance he's getting the clean up time off the books?

No shortage of that work available.

Breezy_ · 13-12-2022 9:06pm

That useless varadkar mentioned this kind of carry on months ago when he was announcing the only thing he did in the last 12 months (sick pay).

Wage theft, holiday theft, overtime theft, break theft. And the poor hospitality section crying cuz they couldn't find staff that put up with it.

Varadkar did nothing. Useless and now he PM again. Useless.

He can fight with them OP, and they'll probably fire him for "poor performance" and see can they get an idiot to accept it. And then you WRC. Or he'll end up fighting with them and life is probably to short.

dotsman · 13-12-2022 9:19pm

How does it take 2 hours to clean up?

This is pretty standard in many pubs, but clean-up usual only takes circa 15 minutes and usually rewarded by a drink or two after.

JustJoe7240 · 13-12-2022 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993022#Comment_119993022

Worked in hospitality for years, It's not common.

To the OP: Tell him to find another job.

Pauliedragon · 13-12-2022 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993349#Comment_119993349

It's very common where I live and I'm in hospitality aswell.

Danzy · 13-12-2022 9:33pm

It's vital you don't get involved, you can offer advice, a pathway but no good will come from your involvement more than that

Breezy_ · 13-12-2022 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993431#Comment_119993431

that all depends

Flinty997 · 13-12-2022 10:01pm

Hospitality are desperate for workers. But then take the proverbial. Agree with the others. Get another job.

Mrs OBumble · 13-12-2022 10:20pm

Last orders is at 2am. Pre-close has started before that, properly cleanup starts then, and really gets going at 2:30 once the punters have to leave (a mop bucket with strong bleach is good for encouraging 'em out).

Finished by 3am is a bit ambitious, but only a little.

It the staff are paid right til the minute they finish, either the manager has to hound them to get done, or they take the p*ss and take ages for more wages. Paying until a half-way intermediate time gives them an incentive to get done but allows for the fact that they might want to chill for a staff drink before cleaning, to have some craic while doing it or afterwards.

Hellrazer · 14-12-2022 12:26am

Thanks for all the replies. My young lad is terrified to rock the boat so to speak in case they decide to get rid of him which is more than likely what will happen so he stays on to do this clean up thing despite me telling him to leave at his clock off time of 3.00am.

Last Saturday the manager on duty then decided to have a staff meeting at 4.30am - again unpaid and he didnt get home until almost 6.00 am.

Checked his pay slip today and he only got paid until 3.00 am. Same saturday just gone 5.45 getting home.

L1011-This place is close to both of us and is notorious for this practice. Jim hodge - to me it looks like all the cleaning is off the books - over the course of a weekend Thursday to Sunday they are saving another full time wage.

Edit - I misunderstood you. Nope definitely not getting paid off the books and neither are any of the other staff.

I know people are saying not to get involved but I hate seeing young people fucked around like this - Ive always treated the young apprentices I take on very fairly and have been doing that for over 20 years.

I was going to ring their HR department anonymously and basically tell them I was seeking a review of their clock ins through the WRC if the practice didnt stop which I believe is an option but wont amount to anything if the staff are being forced to clock off and work for free for 2 hours and those 2 hours arent documented. Or I could find out their insurance company and go down that road - theres a health and safety issue there regarding staff being on premises and not clocked in.

Its a **** thing to do to young people who like my lad are in their very first job while studying and Id love to be able to stop this dodgy practice.

Hellrazer · 14-12-2022 12:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993680#Comment_119993680

This is a huge place with multiple levels and a big beer garden - theres no way its being cleaned in an hour. Probably why they have this " clean up " time thats not paid - they realise how much it will cost them. It regularly takes the staff at least 1.5 to 2 hours from closing to finish cleaning up.

Strumms · 14-12-2022 12:36am

It’s unpaid labour…. That ridiculous point as in it being an incentive to get the work done ? Haha… at that hour of the morning in every and any job, people don’t want to be hanging around, stretching work out, they want their home, some food and their bed.

delboythedub · 16-12-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119992916#Comment_119992916

when clocked out they are not allowed remain on premises due not being covered by insurance.

TooTired123 · 16-12-2022 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058275714/exploitation-and-young-workers

Just leave. Find a job somewhere else and leave. There are lots of jobs for teenagers. Dunnes are struggling to find staff. There’s no need for this. The pu owner is laughing really at your son and his parents who have so little self respect that they will allow their child to work for free. Agree though he has to think for himself, find another job himself or complain to the boss himself.

Hellrazer · 16-12-2022 8:21pm

He is going to leave but Id like to make the management aware of what they are up to.

Already contacted the WRC and you can report this stuff anonymously which Ive done - they are going get an inspection of their time clocks in the next few weeks but it doesnt really help the issue as these will only show that everyone has clocked off at 3.00 am and doesnt show that they worked later cleaning up.

The insurance angle is another one Im trying to cover - from what I gather the individual isnt covered for an accident while not clocked in.

amdublin · 16-12-2022 8:26pm

Cut the apron strings. Your son is 18 he should be dealing with himself:

Clock out and leave. Or stay clocked in until cleaning is finished. (Same thing really).

Hey, are you sure your son isn't clocking out when finished and just staying on socializing??? And, a 4am staff meeting???? Wtf.

Hellrazer · 16-12-2022 10:06pm

Nope hes definitely not socialising and I saw the email regarding the staff meeting at 4.00am.

Regarding teh staying clocked on until they are finished - the manager makes them clock off at 3.00 am or 2.00 am whatever and then they have to stay and clean while NOT clocked on - thats the biggest issue I have with it.

Jim2007 · 17-12-2022 12:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005324#Comment_120005324

I expect you have discussed all this with your son, so the question is what does he think about all this? At the end of the day it's his life and if he were to loose the job, he may not thank you for your interference even if it is good intentioned. I guess it depends on what you want to get out of this...

Mrs OBumble · 17-12-2022 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006875#Comment_120006875

Indeed.

Similarly if the manager has to focus on getting the cleanup done as fast as possible, the staff may find that they lose the fun part of the evening and get only an extra 20 minutes pay.

bucketybuck · 17-12-2022 1:04pm

The best thing you can do for your son is treat him like the adult he is rather than some stupid child.

Checking his payslips, reading his emails, making complaints on his behalf, you are doing far more damage to him than working late in that bar ever will.

You are massively overstepping the line, give him advice but he needs to sort out his own problems not have some helicopter parent fight his battles.

Jim_Hodge · 17-12-2022 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006909#Comment_120006909

How about the manager pays to get the cleanup done? You seem to see anything that gets the job done quicker as justifiable. As for all this fun you think staff have, or want, at that time it's a figment of your imagination for most.

Jim2007 · 17-12-2022 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006909#Comment_120006909

I really could not care less about the business and the manager, I be more concerned about the type of relationship I want to have with my son. If you stick you nose in where it is not wanted the kids will soon fix the problem by excluding you and you'll get a filtered version of their live - more filtered that you might expect that is.

Hellrazer · 17-12-2022 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006909#Comment_120006909

The dont get paid for clean up time and are forced to clock off at 3.00 am. Thats the issue - if they were paid for it Id have no problem at all with it or if the option was there to leave at their clock out time but its not. They HAVE to clock off at 3.00am and they HAVE to stay for the clean up - last night he got home at 5.25am , clocked off at 3.00am but not paid from 3.00 to 5.10 am (its a 10 minute walk home)

Hellrazer · 17-12-2022 5:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006961#Comment_120006961

Regarding the payslips - I didnt check them. He said he didnt think he was getting paid the right amount of hours as in 8pm to 5am and asked me to look at them and its proven to be true - always 1.5 to 2 hours short of the clean up time.

The email he forwarded to me to show me how ridiculous it was.

I dont check his emails and only looked at the payslips when asked.

Maybe you think Im helicoptering but I wouldnt have considered myself like that. I have been heavily involved with unions in the past and also look after all the apprentice training. Ive seen 1st years getting treated badly , not being registered on time etc but I always prided myself on treating the young lads the way they should be treated and this just gets on my wick with my lad.

maninasia · 17-12-2022 5:56pm

Don't mind whatothers are saying, you are looking after your son's interests.

Breezy_ · 17-12-2022 10:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007811#Comment_120007811

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't even explain yourself to some of the crazy thats been posted here.

Exploitation and young workers

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