So...whats the point in mass cards?

katydid · 08-09-2015 08:53AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Point of order: I didn't say that last bit!

The unstated premise in your argument is that, if the priest doesn't know the name of your loved one, he can't pray for him. But as soon as you state the premise, you can see that it's nonsense, can't you? Why would the priest's prayers be one whit less acceptable to God because the priest doesn't know the name of the person he is praying for? What bizarre theology of prayer does this spring from?

Sorry, badly phrased. It was a different sentence, though! :-)

The premise, stated, is that - according to you - the priest in Africa is not praying in any way for the deceased. He doesn't even have their name. He just offers vague prayers for dead people in general, or maybe in Ireland in particular. It's not a question of him not knowing their name, there is NO prayer for any individual.

Yet the person buying the card puts the name of the person for whom the mass is offered on a list, presumable believing that individual will be prayed for.

katydid · 08-09-2015 08:54AM

Lord Riverside wrote: »

Sorry I forgot that none of ye spouting the same old sectarianism and spin from the saopbox are actually interested in allowing the reality to be told by people who actually use Mass cards. Parish office ? Lol, I've never seen one in my life. Sorry if I've spoiled the anti catholic pantomime fantasy here. Carry on.

Where I live, the local friary church, in the city centre, has an office with a counter. You go in, hand over your tenner, and get a pre-signed card. Or you can get them in the local bookshop.

Delirium · 08-09-2015 08:59AM

katydid wrote: »

Where I live, the local friary church, in the city centre, has an office with a counter. You go in, hand over your tenner, and get a pre-signed card. Or you can get them in the local bookshop.

The village I grew up in also has a parish office. It's run out of the Parochial House. So I'm not sure why anyone is getting their nose out of joint about the use of the term

Safehands · 08-09-2015 09:15AM

Lord Riverside wrote: »

Sorry I forgot that none of ye spouting the same old sectarianism and spin from the saopbox are actually interested in allowing the reality to be told by people who actually use Mass cards. Parish office ? Lol, I've never seen one in my life. Sorry if I've spoiled the anti catholic pantomime fantasy here. Carry on.

"the anti catholic pantomime fantasy" is actually based on reality. Methinks your Lordship is just too blind to see it.

Peregrinus · 08-09-2015 10:21AM

katydid wrote: »

Sorry, badly phrased. It was a different sentence, though! :-)

The premise, stated, is that - according to you - the priest in Africa is not praying in any way for the deceased. He doesn't even have their name. He just offers vague prayers for dead people in general, or maybe in Ireland in particular. It's not a question of him not knowing their name, there is NO prayer for any individual.

He prays for the intentions of the donor. He doesn't know the donors name, but he knows there is a donor (because he has received the donation) and that the donor had an intention. He doesn't know that the donor's intention is the repose of the soul of a deceased person, though he knows that there's a sporting chance that it is.

But, as I say, I don't know of any theology of prayer which suggests that this is a problem. If I donate money to charity, I don't usually know who it will benefit, but my act of charity is hardly devalued by that. If I pray for your intentions, I don't know what those intentions are, but my prayers are hardly devalued by that.

katydid · 08-09-2015 02:33PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

He prays for the intentions of the donor. He doesn't know the donors name, but he knows there is a donor (because he has received the donation) and that the donor had an intention. He doesn't know that the donor's intention is the repose of the soul of a deceased person, though he knows that there's a sporting chance that it is.

But, as I say, I don't know of any theology of prayer which suggests that this is a problem. If I donate money to charity, I don't usually know who it will benefit, but my act of charity is hardly devalued by that. If I pray for your intentions, I don't know what those intentions are, but my prayers are hardly devalued by that.

He know that someone somewhere in the world has given him money, and he prays for their intentions...a very long way from some poor old lady forking out a tenner and writing their loved one's name on a list on the assumption that someone, somewhere, will go to the trouble, little and all as it may be, of actually acknowledging that individual in some way.

Theologically, it may be "legal", but boy is that cynical abuse.

tipptom · 08-09-2015 05:41PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

He prays for the intentions of the donor. He doesn't know the donors name, but he knows there is a donor (because he has received the donation) and that the donor had an intention. He doesn't know that the donor's intention is the repose of the soul of a deceased person, though he knows that there's a sporting chance that it is.

But, as I say, I don't know of any theology of prayer which suggests that this is a problem. If I donate money to charity, I don't usually know who it will benefit, but my act of charity is hardly devalued by that. If I pray for your intentions, I don't know what those intentions are, but my prayers are hardly devalued by that.

What happens to this list of names that is taken and what is the purpose of taking a list of names then if their name is not mentioned because it certainly gives that impression.

Safehands · 08-09-2015 05:54PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

He prays for the intentions of the donor. He doesn't know the donors name, but he knows there is a donor (because he has received the donation) and that the donor had an intention. He doesn't know that the donor's intention is the repose of the soul of a deceased person, though he knows that there's a sporting chance that it is.

But, as I say, I don't know of any theology of prayer which suggests that this is a problem. If I donate money to charity, I don't usually know who it will benefit, but my act of charity is hardly devalued by that. If I pray for your intentions, I don't know what those intentions are, but my prayers are hardly devalued by that.

You know, reading these postings you would think that God is sitting on comfortable chair somewhere making decisions about some poor unfortunate's soul based on the amount of prayers he hears. So my granny is up there waiting to be admitted and she goes up to God and asks if she can come in yet. God replies "well actually, I haven't really heard enough prayers for you yet. You'll have to wait and see what comes in on the ether. Back to purgatory and behave yourself. Oh, wait, there's a priest in Zambia about to say Mass, hang on... Nah, he didn't mention your name, but he did pray for all the dead people so you go into the entry lottery with those six billion other souls. Maybe you'll get lucky."

Technique · 08-09-2015 08:27PM

katydid wrote: »

But try going into a parish office and asking them to get a priest to say a mass for your granny, and see how far you'll get. Try offering a couple of euro, the normal price for a fairly low production greetings card, and see how far you'll get.

To be perfectly honest, Katydid, that's a load of nonsense. None our local priests, and I presume the vast majority of priests, would ever refuse to say a mass for someone's intentions if a donation was not forthcoming.

Lord Riverside · 08-09-2015 08:33PM

Technique wrote: »

To be perfectly honest, Katydid, that's a load of nonsense. None our local priests, and I presume the vast majority of priests, would ever refuse to say a mass for someone's intentions if a donation was not forthcoming.

If you check the posters posting history, it's nothing new. Over a thousand posts in the Christianity forum, but not a single positive post, just constant anti catholic soap boxing and negative spin. It seems to be their strange little soapbox mission.

katydid · 08-09-2015 08:46PM

Technique wrote: »

To be perfectly honest, Katydid, that's a load of nonsense. None our local priests, and I presume the vast majority of priests, would ever refuse to say a mass for someone's intentions if a donation was not forthcoming.

I've no doubt that's true. I'm not talking about approaching a priest. I'm talking about the commercial transaction of selling these cards in parish offices and shops. If you go into a parish office and ask for a mass card, you won't see sight nor sound of a priest. You hand over a tenner and get the card. You can be damn sure if you ask for the card and say you're not paying, there would be questions asked. It's a business, pure and simple.

Technique · 08-09-2015 09:39PM

katydid wrote: »

If you go into a parish office and ask for a mass card, you won't see sight nor sound of a priest.

I'd disagree again, I'd say there's a fairly high chance of seeing a priest in the vicinity of the parish office.

Lack of knowledge around these matters isn't preventing you from having a very strong opinion.

katydid · 08-09-2015 09:43PM

Technique wrote: »

I'd disagree again, I'd say there's a fairly high chance of seeing a priest in the vicinity of the parish office.

Lack of knowledge around these matters isn't preventing you from having a very strong opinion.

I am well aware of how it works. I described the situation in the parish office of a church I know well; the office is staffed by one person, it is near but not in the church, and it is not normal for priests to be around there. I'm sure priests drop in every now and then, but it's just a normal office. People I know go there, or to the local book shop, to buy these cards in a purely commercial transaction.

Mrs OBumble · 09-09-2015 12:48PM

Technique wrote: »

I'd disagree again, I'd say there's a fairly high chance of seeing a priest in the vicinity of the parish office.

You'd be wrong. The vast majority of parish offices are run by lay secretarial staff. The priests pop in and out as they go about their day's work - but sitting behind a desk opening mail, paying bills, booking room, selling Mass cards, doing rosters, etc is not generally what they spend their time doing.

Cabaal · 14-09-2015 03:12PM

Technique wrote: »

To be perfectly honest, Katydid, that's a load of nonsense. None our local priests, and I presume the vast majority of priests, would ever refuse to say a mass for someone's intentions if a donation was not forthcoming.

I've been told no parish priest would ever refuse to christian a child belong to a single mother, yet a I know a women who was told just that by the local priest.

Refusing to say a mass without a donation would not surprise me in the least

looksee · 15-09-2015 05:16PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Not sure there's such thing as a Protestant athiest

Of course there is. I was brought up a Protestant so no matter how much I declare myself an atheist I some of my attitudes and cultural behaviours will reflect that. Not maybe very obvious things, but still, we are all products of our upbringing. It also means I have a pretty good knowledge of protestant beliefs.

Since I have been married to a Catholic, reared my children as Catholics and lived here for about 40 years I also have a pretty good knowledge of Catholic beliefs, but it would be a more academic knowledge rather than part of my makeup.

Jellybaby1 · 15-09-2015 07:50PM

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

It may sound a bit contradictory, however, I happen to know a few. You'd be surprised where they may turn up, too.

My earlier reply to the same statement. Possibly the same might go for 'Catholic atheist'. I know a few of those as well.

What people say in public and private are two different things sometimes.

johnnyskeleton · 17-09-2015 02:45AM

Cabaal wrote: »

I'll be honest they come across as just a money making racket from the church, charging for pre-signed cards and the like.

I've heard varying reasons from very much practicing catholics about the importance of them, including one person who said they help get the person into heaven.

But isn't this just indulgence? and if so then it means people are essentially paying for the person to go to heaven.....wasn't that very much an abused medieval practice?

You can buy mass cards from the Capuchin brothers and the like. I can't speak for their efficacy as regards the immortal soul but the money does put substantial food into very mortal and hungry bellies.

Quitelife · 28-10-2022 12:25PM

One of my parents passed away at a young age, kept all the mass cards we received which were of great comfort at the time, kept them all for old times sake. Id occassionally send a Mass/Intention card for someone i know well and always well received from feedback.

Maybe younger people particulary here on boards just want a Whatsapp message or a tweet these days but theres a fair chunk of People still like the thought of someone going to effort of getting a mass card for them.

Graces7 · 24-11-2022 05:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/96932395#Comment_96932395

Your last sentence is quintessentially incorrect. The only reason these cards are sold and bought is for prayer. And you think they cost nothing? To produce etc.... and money is essential in every aspect of every life.

smacl · 24-11-2022 05:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916644#Comment_119916644

Mod: Not much point responding to a post made seven years ago.

Graces7 · 27-11-2022 07:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/96931461#Comment_96931461

I have never bought a mass card. BUT I have countless times asked a priest to pray for me and never been refused. And being very practical, we all, priests included, have to eat , heat homes etc. I pray for folk by request daily but have enough for needs. Money is not contaminated!

joeguevara · 27-11-2022 08:24AM

I suppose you could make the analogy with birthday cards. They don’t do anything specific but remember an occasion. Also it’s a good way of collating who gets the little bookmark with the photo etc to remember: they are solace to the grieving family of how the deceased was remembered. And handy cash for the parish.

martinedwards · 27-11-2022 09:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/96807571#Comment_96807571

Purgatory and limbo are RC theology. don't exist in the Bible, and as the protestant side are all about the bible as the starting point......

the ...less kind.... protestants would see them at best a money raising racket preying on the bereaved... and at worst, blatantly sacrilegious!

Praying for the dead?

not a thing we do as they've made their decision and when judgement rolls around they are judged on their condition at death.

Flinty997 · 27-11-2022 10:37AM

What's the link between purgatory and mass cards. Or indeed saying a prayer or mass for someone.

joeguevara · 27-11-2022 11:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119926768#Comment_119926768

There is a form of purgatory ( more like state of intermediate between life and heaven) that the Protestants believe. It is essentially if you die in debt or insolvency, the ones you leave behind will have to pay it off. And the North Americann creed of Protestants do believe it because they are not bound by the reformation scripture.

and I’m presuming Mass cards could be purchased to buy people out of their wait in purgatory.

27-11-2022 11:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057485189/so-whats-the-point-in-mass-cards

Send me money , send me green

heaven you will meet

make your contribution and you’ll get a better seat

Flinty997 · 27-11-2022 11:56AM

I can find no reference to purgatory and mass cards. Not something I've heard of ever.

I think people here are associating it with selling indulgences. Which is not the same. As there is no reward associated with a mass card that I'm aware of. It's just an acknowledgement.

joeguevara · 27-11-2022 12:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119927040#Comment_119927040

The purpose of Mass cards is to offer our prayers and good works for their complete purification. (Revelation 21:27 - Nothing unclean will be allowed to enter into Heaven.) One important side note: The purification process or Purgatory has nothing to do with one's salvation.

Flinty997 · 27-11-2022 12:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119927057#Comment_119927057

Do you have link to where that's defined.

So...whats the point in mass cards?

Comments