Accounts attached - The current reality facing beef farmers - Any advice?

Excellent thread @James2020App .

Focus has to be on getting the system to run on 15-20 hrs a week. Maybe a bit more around calving

Simplify the work, and this should should help the cost base of things. Grass grass and making the best use of grass. I will have a big chunk of pit silage left over. I still will make enough and have a buffer of it for year to year, especially needed on heavy ground. Ps with the stock numbers you have hopefully you have the option of pit over bales.

Paddocks have the potential to help greatly as it will leave good grass ahead of stock, opportunities to take out surpluses instead of topping. Flexibility in the design can leave it very workable with silage and the use of a few strip wires

Reducing Suckler numbers is key on both the financial and time front. I have cut them back by 50% over the past 5 years due to the time they eat and returns.

Rome wasnt built in a day, set the goalposts and work towards them. Feel free to drop a DM

If you use pigtails to split a field into paddocks (2-3 days grazing with 21-28 days growing) it will leave things easier for working (topping, slurry, lime), just positioning the drinker to suit

OP, you are earning 75k. You have a BPS of around 40k and your farming work is bringing you in -10k. You have 250 acres? (I haven't read all the pages of the thread).

If you set enough of the place on a 10 year lease, along with the entitlements, as much as would be 30k into your pocket free of income tax (for as long as the entitlements last). that's near enough as good to you as a 60k raise in your job.

You can then run a minimum amount of animals across the rest of it as a hobby to keep collecting the payments on it. You could also run that side of things at a loss to make investments and get the place into good shape (and use it to write down your tax on the 75k). Maybe even burn enough to get you out of any high rate of income tax (you still have the 30k from above in your arse pocket). Then max out whatever grants you can and maybe build up your yard.

All the above is hypothetical of course.

The problem with handy cows is handy calves. HE bull is probably a better bet than AA just in the extra weight. LMX cross cows if you can get the right ones.

A few thoughts I agree with late March/April calving as it pushes everything outdoors,however at 18 months at start of second winter these cattle will still be less than 500 kgs. The cost is f winter finishing is horrendous. Do you carry over the winter and finish at 26-28 months off grass. You would be wintering 150 cattle if you had 50 cows. You could finish sh heifers but would they kill 280DW they be netting 1230 at a base of 4.2/kg. Bullocks killed off grass at 26-28 months at 350kgs@ a base of 4.1 is 1500 euro. Your net turnover is 67 k

However you would probably get there not the new AIBP scheme which would add another 6k, the government proposed slaughter for under 24 months of 200 euro qdds 2.5 k. So you would be touching 75 k.

I just cannot see the economics in Suckler cows. If you get you cow costs down to 500/ cow you still have the yearling to finishing costs

I am still not seeing the reduction in costs making it viable. Can the cattle being lighter still give you a 40 day shorter winter period. I still think that if your land is as good as you say a weanling to yearling finishing system is more attractive.

I just cannot make the Suckler numbers work.

suckler numbers can work (but so will you) don’t think people really understand the full work with sucklers - calving, tagging, dehorning, getting calves to suck (albeit it’s 1 in 10/15 but that one will take a lot of time), dosing during summer (separating calves from cows just to get at the calves is a job in itself), getting them in calf, weaning, castrating), meal feeding if ticking the beep box - it’s feckkng non-stop really. And that’s not even mentioning the 3am calvings!!

if you don’t have proper calving sheds with lie back then March April is probably the best option but the money in sucklers comes with the heavy 450-500+kg killed off grass with minimal meal at 29.5 months - again only good quality continental cows will deliver this.

Beef price typically peaks in June and starts dropping from there so you’re trying to hit the balance of price v weight but cattle need the age to achieve maximum kill out. A March April calf will probably average 400kg if killed in July august whereas a Jan-feb could be 50-100 kg heavier. But you need good grazing ground with paddock system to achieve this. That’s where the numbers add up in sucklers. I’ve often hit €2300/2400 for steers but usually it’s around average €2k with a €4kg base.

All Price depending of course and at the mercy of factories with weight restrictions by times too.

I agree but if he calves in January/February he is feeding a cow and calf for 8-12weeks inside. As well straw in Donegal is 10-15/ bake dearer than in Westmeath which is a five dearer than Wexford. His winter is 4-6 weeks longer than most of the rest of the country. Lighter cows may shorten his winter but you scarfice turnover between weight and late calving.

OP another consideration is to rent 150 acres and farm 100 acres. You could start to set this up and finesse a system that works. If tax becomes an issue you can put the farming part without the land in a company format. Any stick and machinery can go in at present book value. You can actually treat this book value as a loan to the company and take it out tax free in the future.

Is that including PAYE

Yea it’s the income from the rental house which is a killer.

rental income is decent but when you get with a tax bill of 5o% and your still paying a mortgage on it, it is some dose.

politicians afraid to do something about it because it’s not pc correct in their eyes and they will get hounded by SF and social media on supporting landlords rather than tenants.

time to sell up while you can before SF come to power who have openly said they will take the option of refusing to sell rented out houses.

I bought a house this year but that’s a different matter. The house is my pension from work as only started back in the workplace a few years ago. I tend not to buy stuff that I don’t need. Maybe I need to change? Too cute maybe