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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    I always thought I done a decent job of carb loading - but I guess I was wrong.

    It was actually great to get this done 5 weeks prior to Dublin - It certainly gave me food for thought on carb loading and prep.

    The aim is to get 8-10g or Carbs per KG of weight - so I'm 80kg= 640kg-800kg!!!!

    I used 'MyFitnessPal' to track it - So my biggest carb day day (664g) went something like;

    Breakfast:

    Porridge - 60g= 39g Carbs

    3 slices White Blommer Bread = 60g carbs

    Lunch:

    100g pasta = 60g Carbs

    Mars Bar (1st in about 3 years)= 23g Carbs

    Dinner: Large Pizza = 142g Carbs (this is contentious as you can only process 80-90g carbs per hour, apparently)

    Snacks: Remainder of the carbs

    Many pancakes (lots of carbs in small pancakes) - had many of them.

    Fruit Loaf - plenty of it.

    Maurten drinks + solids

    Tailwind Drink.

    Carb drinks are your friend in Carb loading - something I haven't done too much of previously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    My Best Dublin time is 2.59 / My PB is 2.52.

    My A Goal - is to run a good time and not Cramp - thats the goal given that I've cramped in 9/10 marathons that I've done. If I can figure a way to not cramp - I can figure a way to run a good time on a decent course in the future. This DCM is a bit of an experimental process.

    If I was to put a time goal on this - It would probably look like;

    My A Goal: Gods smiling on me - perfect weather etc = 2.49.59

    My B Goal: PB (Under 2.52.58)

    My C Goal: Course PB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Taxes


    Good look in obtaining at least one of your goals.

    Yes, in time and with the correct training, you can run a sub 2.40 marathon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    OMG, that’s some mount of carbs. How did you feel after all that? I take it that was the day before your 24 miler? Do you up the carbs for the few days before too? I have 320g carbs the day before and of my long runs currently … I’m about 62kg but that includes the tailwind I’m drinking while running too. Your calculations would be giving me 496-620g … I can’t imagine eating all that 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Friday 23rd: Easy run - 4.34m / 8.13 pace.

    Sat 24th: Easy run - 4m / 7.59 pace.

    Sunday: Long Session - 40k at MP+20

    I'm going to go into some detail for a training run as I ran 40k at sub3 pace and didn't cramp or get any signs of cramp. Apologies.

    So the thought process here is that you run for 40km for your Goal Time (2.50) - this worked out for me at 6.50 - a nice round number equivalent to a sub 3 time.

    Fantastic - so I have to run, untapered, the vast majority (40k) of a Sub 3 marathon on my own and do it without Gels (coaches instructions) And I decide to do it on the DCM Route.

    So From Thursday, I was carb loading, treating this run as a Marathon. I managed to get decent Carbs into me on all 3 days, leaving off from Sat about 3pm (Pancakes are great to get carbs and not feel full - as are carb drinks).

    My 2 daughters were playing in the Dublin Intermediate Championship Final on Sat evening - so after doing grocery shopping, walking the dog and running - I went along to watch. Its always a strange experience having to pay to see your family play football. Thankfully they won!

    This meant broken sleep as they returned at 3am - but I cant begrudge them this, they love GAA still at their age (19 & 22) - it was well deserved. I smiled while I slept.

    Anyway - I got up at 6.30am - cleaned up my new puppys mess - fed the pair of them (dogs not daughters) had my own breakfast - Bagel, banana & coffee with a Maurten 320.

    What I didn't do this time was fill myself with salts. I took 1x160 Maurten on Thursday (0.5g Salt) / 1x tailwind on Sat (0.6g salt) / most of Maurten 320 Sun morning - this is in stark contrast to prior marathons where I'd have multiple salt tabs, Electrolyte drinks etc.

    I did not consume too much water in the build up - not too much salts bar the above.

    Summary: Good Carb loading (600g per day) / Not too much water (normal amount) / not too much salts apart from 1 drink per day with 0.5g salt

    40k Run:

    I Drove and parked in Mountjoy Sq and done a short 400m warmup to Fitzwilliam Sq - I thought about doing a 5 min 1km warm up & cool down - to make a sub 3 - but that would be ego driven - so didn't do it.

    Got right into it and hit pace quite quickly. Mile 1 was 6.50 followed by a downhill mile of 6.35.

    The next few miles were uphill and to take 2k off the run - I turned down OS Road and didn't go up to Myo's. The hill at St Laurences Road is a curse at pace (my pace here was 6.48 but my GAP was 6.32 - so need to watch that).

    The hardest part in the entire 40km was after the Dolphins Barn turn - Crumlin Road - a curse - a slight headwind and at this stage I had my only demons about finishing and I was only 12 miles in (Mile 12 on this road was my slowest mile at 6.56 - it also included a stop to change Podcast and check where the turn was :) ) ). I kept telling myself that this stretch is short and we turn off it and its mostly downhill - I knew the Rathfarnham 5k was on - so that gave me some inspiration to know I'd be running past that.

    Once I turned at Walkinstown I felt great again - having to slow down at times - I did have to stop a couple of times to consult the map - despite running the route last week.

    At this stage - I took a swill of 'Cramp Fix' - I tried these in Seville last year - but only when I got cramp. Today I took them at 3 intervals - didn't swallow but spit - 'oh matron......behave....' - apparently you don't have to swallow - its the tongue receptors that signal the brain.

    I'll admit - this part of the course gets me and I did have to consult my phone a few times - mostly on the run, so didn't pause time too much.

    Next few miles flew by - Ciara Mageeans interview with Citius Mag was the best thing I've listened to in a long time - shes a gas character.

    The Clonskeagh Road is a terror - its a decent climb at this stage and culminates with the left turn to Roebuck Road and the climb that awaits you.

    Main point about this climb - you can slow down on this - its short - you wont lose too much time by slowing pace by 20-30 secs per mile if needed.

    I dont think I lost too much time here - I kept my gaze on the traffic lights at the top and just made my way to the top. Turning onto Fosters ave and smiling at the times I had cramped on this road in the past - today - not even a semblance of a cramp so far - but I was running at MP+20 secs.

    Running down Fosters Ave was a joy - I knew I wouldn't cramp and this would be a big victory for me, albeit on a training run.

    I still took some Cramp juice here and remembered that I had 2 'soft flasks' in the pockets of my under shorts - they had gone unnoticed - I took a mouthful in Phoenix Park - but forgot about them until now - took some water on here for only the 2nd time- about 21m in.

    The fly over, Nutley Lane, past the RDS, it was only when I reached Ballsbridge did I start getting a funny feeling in my quad - it went pretty soon as I got near Haddinton Road - I flew past the traditional DCM finish line as I miscalculated the distance in my route planning and had to do a lap of Merrion Sq - Finishing was a very sweet feeling.

    40km / 2.48.37 / 6.47 pace

    Delighted with that, yes there were some stops involved, but it was solo on DCM route, untapered - btw - Swashbuckler will be happy to know that I wore the AlphaFlys and they were great.

    This run fills me with confidence - cramp was my biggest fear - it dodn't come - was it the +20sec off goal pace, was it the 'Cramp Fix', was it the lack of OD'ing on Salts and keeping my body in balance chemically?? Not too sure - but I hope I have the confidence to replicate it on DCM Race Day.

    Post edited by AuldManKing on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    The biggest day was Friday (run was Sunday) - felt like too much - but you have to follow the science and go along with the flatulence.......yes - its criminal.

    Saturday was heavy'ish upto 3pm.

    Carb drinks, 1 large Pizza (only 1 as too much FAT) and pancakes - the best way to get though it!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    That was an awesome run. Does that mean it's the Alphas for the big day?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lazare


    I saw this monster long run on Strava earlier and couldn't wait for the low down on it. Fantastic stuff A. You're a machine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    What would you class as 'correct training'.

    Genuine comment as I'm always open to learn.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Taxes


    If you want, you can message me after the marathon and we’ll discuss.

    Best of luck with the marathon. I admire anyone who laces up the runners to do one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    That's a shame. We could all learn something from your thoughts. (Being selfish here. Lol)



  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Taxes


    A great trainer will always be a great racer.

    A hard trainer will not always be a great racer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Taxes


    Okay, after the DCM, I’ll post my thoughts re training on this thread.

    I don’t want to post anything in the interim that may put doubts in athletes minds before the race.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Ok I'll accept that as an interim compromise 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 361 ✭✭babacool


    Quick question in the carb loading part, since you locked everything in MyFitnessPal, how many calories did you end up with per day when hitting your carb numbers?


    reason for asking: if I go for the 10gr per kilogram weight I need 710-750gr of carbs per day. In order to hit that number I would probably need around 3500 calories per day yet 3-4 days out of a marathon I would only burn 2000-2200kcal per day. Or is that’s where sport drinks and non alcoholic beer etc comes in to play? Carbs but no calories?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    I wasn't at all focused on calories on the 3 days leading upto the 40k run - just carbs - looking back on it it looked like;

    Thurs: 3400 Cals / 458g Carbs

    Fri: 4393 cals / 664g Carbs

    Sat 2992 Cals / 555g Carbs (didn't load too much in evening.)

    The intention is to also get upto 200g Carbs at breakfast on race day e.g. 3-4 pancakes, 1 Maurten Drink / 1 Gel.

    I think on Marathon week - I'll have it better planned out what I'll have for BF - the advice to plan it in 2 hour chuunks was also helpful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Mon & Tuesday: Easy runs - bringing the legs back around - felt pretty good on the Tuesday.

    Wed: Had a planned easy day, but brought the 'steady run' fwd a day to try to move my long runs to Sat. Ran this with a friend, felt great -

    7.2m / 7.12 pace.

    Thurs & Friday: More easy runs - 40 mins + 35 mins - I had planned to do my 'big session' on the Sat.

    Sat: Planned session - woke up feeling not great - done the warm up, felt bad - was very breezy out - knew it was a mistake to try the session - so went home!!

    At this stage for the week I had 25 miles ran!!

    Sunday: Session: 15x1km at HMP off 90s Float (60-90secs slower than rep)

    Up early on Sunday morning (due to the new puppy - I'm up every day before 7) - went out about 10am for this - the legs felt great it must be said. I was chomping at the bit during the warm up - despite the 4 pints of Guinness on Sat night (I was home by 9pm).

    1.75m WU and set off - initial 10-11 reps were around the Furze/OS/Chesterfield/North Road loops - no hills as such - the miles ticked by and the K reps felt very comfortable as did the recoveries

    For some variation I brought he last 5 reps down the North Road but done them faster as I felt guilty for doing them downhill :)

    1st 10 reps ranged from 6.02 (fastest) to 6.12 (Slowest) with the recoveries all under 7.25.

    Last 5 reps were 5.59/6.00/6.07/6.02/5.46 (Last rep was down the hill by the Wellington Mmt.)

    Average for reps was 6.05 / ave for recoveries was 7.22 - very happy with that.

    1m cool down.

    With WU/CD and the reps - the session came to 15 miles at 6.36 pace - felt great after it - no ill effects with the stomach as per other sessions.


    Sept ended with 239 miles (3 rest days and 1 day with 1 mile :) )

    Very happy with it given a HM PB, a 3x7km session, a 21m run, a 40k run at sub 3 pace and this 15x1km session.

    All runs had their place and the body is in a good place.

    The next 11 days are key for me - 2 key midweek sessions in there and 1 more 2hr 30 long run - looking fwd to it.

    The harder runs (ones I thought I'd struggle on) are all done now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 361 ✭✭babacool


    Cheers. Leads up to another question: weight gain last 3 days? 😁. With amount of calories my fear always is “I’m getting too heavy now”. It’s stupid I know but it’s always on my mind.


    3-4 pancakes for breakfast? 😳 would fear of having to have a toilet break 2k into the run. Or how many hours did you leave between breakfast and starting the run?


    the 2hrs split sounds good though. Definitely take this one on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    On the morning of my 40k run I had 1 bagel, banana, Maurten drink - I was just using the example of Panccakes - but I'd have BF about 3 hrs prior to Marathon.

    Weight - I wouldn't even consider it - doesn't cross my mind.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday 3rd Oct: Plan was for 40mins easy - body felt depleted - managed 36 mins with a few stops.

    Tuesday: 4th Oct: Back on it today - not a traditional session but a steady run inc some strides.

    Pace hovered around 7-7.10 for the 50 mins of steady running - 5x30sec strides to finish.

    Wednesday 5th: 45 mins at 8 min/miles - down to the PP and back.

    Thursday 6th: Session: 1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1 km at MP - 1km float at 7.20

    I seen this on paper and thought it looked handy enough - given previous sessions I had done (e.g. 3x7km off 1k float / 15x1k HMP) - so took the opportunity to do this on a lumpy route.

    Ran from the house down to the PP, 1.5m of this was a WU (7.30 pace felt great) - went down the Upper Glen Road and up the S-Bends, up Wellington Monument Road - makes me laugh that even when you go downhill in the park you have the S-Bends & Military Road to contend with.

    At this stage I felt fantastic - MP was comfortably faster than 6.30's and the recoveries were at 7's or faster - I turned at the Quays to go up Stoney Batter on a 1km recovery and went up at 6.55 pace - things started to turn from this point!

    The NCR was full of people, so a good bit of weaving and dodging - I went into the Park and past Garda HQ - the headwind noticable at this point and I was all of a sudden struggling.

    Up chesterfield, done a loop of the 2m Route at North Road and then down OS Road and onto the Furze - had to stop and take a Gel on the last 3km rep as I felt a bit dizzy and the rep pace was declining to 6.40's got back going with the plan to run by effort and went back up C'Field and up Castleknock Road to Myos - turned left and crested the high point of the DCM route - still had to finish the final 2k rep and done so about 1m from my house - took an easy 1k jog and decided not to do the final 1km rep - the effort levels were high from the headwind and the hills (bad idea) - got home and the stomach was in a bad way - took some water on and about 5-10 mins after my shower I was violently puking it all back up.

    This has happened previously - high effort levels with the headwinds and a dicky tummy, probably not enough water or fuel for the session as well, I was fine afterwards and enjoyed my Pizza and a Beer :)

    16.7m / 6.53 pace ave (inc WU/CD)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Friday: Took a rest day.

    Saturday: 50mins moderate + 5x200 strides

    Felt very tired during this - needed to do the bones of a mile WU (normally I can hit pace right off) and more of a struggle than usual. Moderate was 7.05 - 7.10's - watching the HR (wrist HR). Non hilly route.

    5x200 strides.

    9m total.

    Sunday: Plan was for a 2hr30min run at 7.30 pace and inject a 30sec surge (MP) every 15 mins.

    I had a route planned that would take me from my house to Mile 2 of DCM route and upto Kilmainham (mile 11??) before turning for home again.

    1st 6miles down to the Quays - 7.25 ave maybe, feeling ok - I had brought 2x250ml Maurten in my undershorts pockets - no bounce and felt good - I trialed this with water on the 40k run recently and will probably run with it on DCM day.

    Took some Maurten at this stage.

    Next 6 miles up Manor St, NCR was full of foot traffic, into the park - took a Gel - upto Castlkknock, imagining the crowds in 3 weeks time. Taking some respite down Tower Road.

    Pace was about 7.20's here - I had my watch programmed - so every 15 mins I'd get the reminder to run the 30sec surge.

    On the Hill by St Laurences Road - I got the reminder for the surge so legged it up the hill (too fast) - got the burn and had to stop at the top of the hill :( - took on some Maurten and got moving again after about 20-30 secs - started to notice how tired the legs were at this stage (I was 15 miles in).

    Made it to Kilmainham and turned left at the lights, back to Chapelizod Road - legs were in a bit of a mess, I had the heavy slog feeling.

    I made it to the Park and up a particularly hilly section and then decided to run up Tower Road and the rest of the hilly part home.

    Last 3 miles were 8.00/7.50/7.56 - but felt 10 min miles.

    Once I made it up the last hill, I was about 2-3 mins run from my house - the watch read 2hr 33mins - so stopped it and walked home.

    Very very tired legs and body all day - resting HR is up 5-6 beats so need to watch myself.

    20.4 miles at 7.29 pace

    63 miles for the week with 1 rest day.

    Post edited by AuldManKing on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Bit of a final vaccination run: you won't be affected by any surging and no heavy slog feeling on race day as a result. "legs were in a bit of a mess" is about right for that run 3 weeks out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday 10th: Easy recovery - 4m / 8.25 pace. Very tired.

    Tuesday 11th: 10min 6.40 / 6x3mins/ 6x30secs / 4x50m - went well - 3min paces were about 5.50 pace.

    Wed 12: rest - not feeling great........Still.

    Thursday 13th: 6/5/4/3/2/1km at MP - 1k float at 7.20

    Not feeling great for this - but knew I needed to hit it. Done 1m WU and ran down to the Park - completing the 6km rep before entering the park.

    Using the usual loops in the non hilly part of the park - completed the workout - went home and stomach was in a heap again.

    With a 1m WU - I hit 17m at 6.42 pace

    1.5m cooldown for a mega 18.5m midweek run!

    Friday 14th: Rest - managing the lurgy - moved into a new age category.

    Saturday 15th: Due to me heading away on Sunday - I wanted to get this done on Saturday - 2 hours, very windy conditions.

    15.4m / 7.39 pace

    Sunday: Rest - still not great but over the worst I think.

    Monday: 4m around Kilronan Castle in Roscommon - making sure the body still works after copious amounts of food (not too much drink).

    Tuesday 18th: Last big session. 2m WU / 7m MP + 3m progressive Tempo / 2m CD

    I was a bit worried about this - the persisting headcold, the food intake, the 2 hr drive home still in the legs - how and ever - I set off in the AlphaFlys for added support and done the 2m WU - feeling good.

    The 7m MP section was fine actually - it hurt a bit into the wind at times & coming up the North Road was a bit 'meh', but was overall fine - I went straight into the tempo section, seeing the 1st mile pop up at 6.15 as I approached the aras - coming back around to the North Road, the drag was noticeable at that pace but fine - mile 2 beeped at 6.08 and now into the final mile - a quick detour from my planned route - upto the CK gate, back down and around to Farmleigh. I got caught at the road for about 10-15 seconds so stopped the watch - the last mile came in at 5.59 but obviously would have been slower without the quick breather.

    10 miles in 63 mins - I'll take that - a great confidence builder.

    Just under 14 miles for the day.

    Lets hope this headcold goes away!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Happy birthday!

    The enthusiasm seems low or at least isn't coming across . Hopefully the crappy feeling/sickness eases off. We've had nothing but sickness in our house since day 1 of school restarting. Feckin kids.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Its a balancing act right now with a lot going on - Illness and B'day celebrations are a distraction - 1 welcome, 1 not! Work being bedlam doesn't help.

    Looking forward to a nice taper from now to recover and get the head right (both mentally and illness related!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 361 ✭✭babacool


    I hear ya. little one sick since last Friday. Past that around the house and now it’s gotten to me too. I think it’s time to stop running marathons between October and March 😁. Just no point as always some sickness will hit us. We are just getting too old for this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing



    So, since the last update I've done a decent run of 3x(3/2/1 mins) off 1 min on the Thursday followed by a few miles easy on Saturday.

    On Sunday 23rd I had 30E/30 MP/30E - in the lashings of rain.

    It went horrible, but I put it down to a mixture of just coming out of a bad headcold plus taper madness - I noted a bit of a toothache on Sunday night plus a headache.

    On Monday I woke up with a golfball sized abscess in my mouth - made an emergency dental appt and had to get it drained and was put on a course of antibiotics and pain killers.

    Thursday today and I should be starting my carb loading but thats not going to happen, given the current pain and fatigue - I cant see myself running 0.2 miles - never mind 26.2 on Sunday.

    A bit gutted to be honest, given it was a 20week lead in to it - but these things happen.

    I looked at Malaga or San Seb as alternatives but another visit to the dentist today ruled these out as I need follow up treatments on my teeth that will require a lot of work and impact on training.

    On we go - must sign up for Jingle Bells.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,427 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Yikes. Are you totally ruling Dublin out? Sorry to hear this if so.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,292 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Oh no. Very unfortunate timing, so sorry to read this Alan.



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