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New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    meant to post this earlier in the week. Interesting article on routes most used, patriots most popular routes seem to be in breaking routes. This might be a flawed recollection, but certainly at least half of Mac’s interceptions seem to be on out or outside the number routes where he really needs to drive the ball. I just wonder if this is a case of a mismatch between the skill set of the wr core and Mac’s skill set. His best connections seem to be with the receivers I think are more comfortable going over the middle like bourne and meyers. Parker is an outlier here because I’m really not sure where his comfort level is but I definitely feel aglohor is more of an outside the numbers type receiver, which is maybe why he hasn’t really had that great a connection with Mac. Anyway, interesting article.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    And is if to illustrate my point, aglohor bobbles the ball on an in breaking slant and hey presto, interception. Looking back the throw looks a bit low but still he gets his hands on it, shoulda been a catch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Look, the fact is Mac is taking too many chances. I put up a video critiquing one of his performance and he never looked underneath. You gotta complete the ball short to prevent double and triple coverage deeper down the field. As long as teams are confident he isn't going for short routes they can have nickel and dime packages to control his game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    Boards in general has been hugely down since the revamp. Nothing to do with the Pats. I'd say this is one of the busier threads aside from the 2 main ones. Last year even the weekly game thread was dead.

    Also, the NFL allowing a sexual predator get the largest contract in NFL history has turned some people completely off the league.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,465 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Does anyone really know anyone who's stopped watching it for that reason?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Big Pussy Bonpensiero




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,465 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Did ya watch the Superbowl with Ray Lewis after he was accused of Murdering a guy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    I don't know.

    Whataboutery is a fairly weak argument though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,465 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    I'm just saying, there's been scandals in the NFL forever, viewing figures continue to grow. I don't think this scandal is making Irish viewers turn off NFL (and boards as you suggested)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Unfortunately people will watch Browns games hoping he gets hit hard and injured. The sad thing about that is the people who have total disregard for the victims and gave him this contract will profit from the higher viewing figures.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    I get that, the NFL in general seems to be one big controversy, but I don't think anything of this magnitude has ever happened before (I include the Ray Lewis incident too), and in addition to everything else that has preceded it, I think there's a cohort, a fairly small cohort granted, of people that this was the final straw. I haven't stopped watching it myself obviously, but I'm certainly less interested this year than last. I definitely will not be watching Watson play, even if he makes the Superbowl.

    As for the viewing figures, I think they will be growing this side of the Atlantic for many years to come. Despite how much more widespread the sport is, it's still very niche. Most people I know couldn't name any non-QB players and would even struggle to name more than 2 positions. There's huge room for growth in that regard, and the fact that it doesn't clash with any other sport is a massive plus. But if it were possible, I'd love to see the retention figures for the gamepass for example.

    And I think you'd be surprised by the effect it has had based on what you've said. It's not going to lead to mass boycotts by any means, but to think it has no effect is a bit narrow-minded tbh. Some people can't stomach seeing serious sexual predators featuring in a leading role in one of the world's richest sport. Some people can look the other way, and fair play to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,465 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    From what I've seen so far, there's lots of callers to radio shows, people posting comments on twitter etc saying "I'll never watch again", I don't see the verocity of the response like we got for say Ched Evans in UK, where team sponsors were pulling money if he was signed. We saw what people power did in that case, Team sponsors pulling stadium naming rights, partners cancelling contracts with NFL would have been action rather than words. I don't get the feeling NFL are worried.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,879 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Wish we had the capital to make a play for CMC. Feel he'd literally be BB's dream of a RB.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Would be a fairly needless luxury IMO. Harris and Stevenson are a brilliant 1-2. Harris might not be here next year, but Stevenson looks like a superstar in the making IMO and I'd be very comfortable with him going forward. We have a lot of cap room, but Stevenson still on his rookie contract is a plus too. McCaffrey is on a huge contract.

    McCaffrey has some injury issues the last couple of years, and they're managing him very carefully again this year. He's only mid-20s but his usage has been very heavy. I think it's one we should avoid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Speckydodge


    I think Mondre is getting pretty close to BB's dream as it is, he waxed poetic after the game last Sunday and it's easy to see why. Fell like he could be about to breakout into the superstar RB club. CMC for all his brilliance is made of glass unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,879 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I think CMC would be excellent in a committee set up. Avoid the mistakes made by the Panthers with him being run into the ground. He's legit a generational talent imo, everything White could do at a higher level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Not doubting his talent at all and seems like exactly the type of player BB would like. I just think you don't take on the remaining 2.5 years of the biggest RB contract in league history when that player has been plagued by injuries for the first 2 years of it, especially when one of the brightest young talents on your team is at that position on a 4th round rookie contract. I'd rather we made a splash elsewhere. If we're looking at Panthers, then DJ Moore would be my preference for a skill position to plunder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,595 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Agree. CMC is one of the most dynamic RBs the league has ever seen. He's been ridden into the ground by carolina though. He has the workload of a 32+ year old RB on his odometer given the number of touches per game and per season he gets, coupled with the injuries.

    If he were a free agent coming off injury he'd be an ideal BB signing. Give him a prove it deal. But now to trade for him it would be too costly, and that contract is too much for a committee RB. I don't think he's made of glass, but short of kicking or playing defense he's in on every snap

    I dont think its fair to say he's neglected the receiving corps. A fairer criticism and one I would agree with, is that the picks and signings havent worked out. Harry was a first round WR. We spent a lot of money on two top TEs - not generational level like Kelce or Gronk but really good. The issue is the playcalling, and the lack of a great QB. Let's face it. What has the team got? A good to great defense, a very capable running game, I love stevensons play this year, the o line is not half bad after recent struggles, two good TEs and a hodge podge at WR of average to above average WRs. If your third string QB can come in and nearly beat AR and the packers, the team is good. QB is the issue. Is mac jones the answer? He's given as many "yes" as "no" plays. Much as I hate to say it, he reminds me of matt cassel. Basically the coaches trying to make him brady lite and run the same plays to mask his inability. It worked for a season with cassel but he got found out as a starter.

    I think we should go after baker mayfield in the off season. He's performing awfully and is on a one year deal. The perfect pats signing. Remember Moss was trash in OAK before his NE run.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm in agreement with the last two posters as regards CMC.

    As regards QB, Baker Mayfield was awful with the Browns, is awful with the Panthers and will be awful wherever he ends up after that.

    Mac is still finding his way. He was a game manager last season and did a good job at that. It's quite clear he's been asked to be a bit more aggressive and he just has to balance things out a bit. He's not looking much at anybody open under ten yards downfield besides Meyers.

    He has to tone it down a bit and we'll have a great one I think.

    You have to remember he played on a great college team and aggressive was easy with Devonta Williams and Jaylen Waddle to throw to against less than stellar defensive backs most weeks. He's obviously had a lot of success in practice with Parker but you can't throw him the ball in double or triple coverage.

    The reason I mention Parker is that four of his five ints have been on throws to Parker.

    If I was looking to sign anybody I'd be looking at underperforming WRs like Darnell Mooney, Robbie Anderson and Jerry Jeudy. The reason all three are underperforming is QBs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,879 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    If Lamar somehow became a free agent, would y'all support the Pats going for him? We're supposed to have quite a bit of cap room next season iirc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 621 ✭✭✭dh1985


    Randy moss was good and dipped in Oatland. But was still seen as elite. Baker Mayfield is crap full stop. What does Baker bring that Mac Jones doesn't. Jones is in his second year. Does some good things. Does.some bad things but is still learning. May not have the skillset of an elite QB and lacks consistency but its still early days. Very little football played to be tossed on the thrash heap yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    Definitely think CMcC would be an unnecessary luxury, and would be worried about his injury history and workload. Seems like everybody thinks Carolina is going to engage in a fire sale now. To that end, name I've seen mentioned that would fill a need (but isn't splashy) would be Derrick Brown, who has the size to play as a two gapping nose tackle, this would then allow Godchaux and Guy to play the outside in a 3-4 base, and could definitely improve run defence. My only concern there would be whether we have the right OLBs to set the edge in a 3-4. I'm assuming Judon will be OK, just don't know if Uche can set the edge on the other side although reports from training camp were good (don't think Collins would, knock on him is that he's always played with a bit of indiscipline).

    Not sure there's any other area I'd look at. Really, we go how Mac goes. If his play is good, we've enough around him to get the playoffs, and maybe even win one. If he's poor, then we're screwed. Somebody asked earlier if Jackson became available would we take him. It really depends on how Mac goes, if he shows a progression later in the season from last year, I'm happy enough to stick with him. However, if he's flat or moves back from last year, then I'd think about it. Either way, I just can't see Bill tying up the amount of money in one player that Lamar would want, so I think it's a moot point. I think Bill will always value building the middle class of his roster instead of paying one/several players top of their position prices, and to be fair I think that approach has proven to be the correct one for sustained success.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The other thing is that as a rookie under Josh McDaniels Mac did a good job as a game manager. That's how Brady started out for his first couple of years.

    Do we blame Mac if things don't go well or do we look at Judge and Patricia?

    Like there's not much serious offensive experience there. Judge has never been a QB coach before. Patricia did a little bit with the offensive line before switching to defense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Zappe doing a nice job, 209 yards and a td early in the third. Seven different receivers so far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,491 ✭✭✭✭paulie21


    Good to see Thornton get off the mark. Maybe finally we've drafted a decent receiver



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm confident we did. He was impressive in college. COVID prevented him from doing what he did last year for two seasons. He'd have been a first round pick if he had done it for two seasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,823 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    Early days but this year's draft class is looking promising. Last year's seems above average too (will ultimately be judged on how Mac ends up). But it's hopefully a sign we've improved our drafting - it really was sub-standard there for a while.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Zappe now has 315 yards and 2 TDs. Thornton four receptions for 37 yards and a td.

    It'll be hard to hand the keys back to Mac after this performance.

    Thornton had a 19 yard rushing td before the end of the game.

    Post edited by eagle eye on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    23 wins for Bill to tie Shula for most head coach wins.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Given he had the best year of any of the rookie 1st rounders it would be mad if he was the first one to start on the bench while healthy. However he hasn't played well this year and Zappe had the same OC situation. I still expect Mac to start again but it does highlight it isn't the scheme given his doppleganger looked good with the same team.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Yeah but we know Bill from years ago when he dropped the franchise QB, Drew Bledsoe, favouring the sixth round pick.

    I think he'll want to see more of Bailey and Mac will be told they are keeping him out until he is fully healthy so that's another two to three weeks before they have to make a decision.

    Right now Bailey had the highest QB rating of any starting QB in the league.

    I think we have to see more of him and I expect that's going to happen.

    He's shown a lot of intelligence and vision to this point like staring down the safety to stop him making his move, like pulling out of what looked like an easy throw to Meyers and moving to the other side of the field to get Thornton in the back of the end zone. I watched that play a couple of times because I noticed in a replay from a side angle that the corner came out of nowhere to get in front of Meyers and that would have likely been a pick but he seen it. I was shouting at the TV for him to throw it to Meyers who looked wide open to me. He seen what could happen and made the smart decision to go to his second or third check down.

    I have my no.10 jersey and I love Mac and it'll suck to have to go out and buy a no.4 but it's in the hands of the GOAT coach and I'll be happy no matter which way it goes.

    I have to admit that I'm not far off believing that Bailey is the real deal.

    You do know he broke the record for yardage and td passes last year in college? The td record was set by Joe Burrow and people said it would never be broken but Bailey threw for 5967 yards and 62 touchdowns breaking both records.

    Bailey has a great story spending two years at Houston Baptist in the FCS and then transfering with his OC to Western Kentucky last year and breaking records.

    He was a complete nobody until he broke those records last year. He reminds me a lot of the GOAT because he doesn't yet have the arm strength for accurate, deep throws but he certainly is a very smart football player. I can guarantee we'll be offered at least second round picks for him at the end of the season if he's back on the bench for the rest of the season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Bailey has just been asked to run as a game manager behind a strong defense. There is no need for him to push for points. That is exactly what you want for a back up and will need to show more to be a starter and there is no need to rush Mac back. Essentially I need to see more of him. Like Cooper Rush I want to see him when he doesn't feel like their defense will dominate a game.


    Obviously Bill has made this decision before but it will be harder to go back to Mac if he is benched for any period of time. Plus the interesting wrinkle that I believe Zappe should have the incompetent Bears while Mac will be back in time to face a dominant Jets defense so the calls for Zappe could get loud if the Pats don't entirely shut down the Jets offense (though they should be able to do that).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I think if you put Mac back in he stays in unless he makes a mess of things.

    I think you keep him out based on his injury for another two or three weeks, we have a bye after three games.

    The Bears and the Colts are pretty vicious defenses and both better than the Jets. If Bailey gets through the first two with good play and wins I don't think you can take him out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    I think Mac sits for another week or two to be 100%. If we bring Mac back too early and he sucks, then I think that would do enormous damage to team morale and the morale of both qbs. Think it’s better to ride the hot hand for the moment. I also assume at some point that defences will have enough video of Zappe to the point where the difficulty starts to escalate, which I think would be great time to bring mac back.

    On a non-patriots note, sad to see today that delanie walker has officially retired. I always thought he was a great all-round tight end and someone who could have done really well here if he ever came over to us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Yeah, you have to see what you've got in Bailey when you have the opportunity without affecting Mac's confidence. You just tell him we want to make sure he's 100% recovered before you put him back in and say that Bailey is doing a good enough job to allow us to take our time with you. That way you get time to assess what you've got against a couple of good defenses and then it's make your mind up time with no damage done to either player.

    Always liked Walker myself and always thought he was a BB type player.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 Xopher


    Do you think when Jones is back and healthy, will Zappe have a chance of being starter?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,595 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Hard to know, BB doesnt really do QB controversy. I'd be of the opinion that Zappe should be the starter till the bye - as mentioned above - and if he continues in the same streak as now it would be hard to pull him from the game. I've seen more flashes in the few games Zappe has played than I have from mac jones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,595 ✭✭✭✭ELM327




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    BB does do it. We had a young guy who hadn't done much outside of being a game manager and when Bledsoe came back from injury he was benched and the young man went on to become the GOAT but nobody could ever have guessed that when he first came in or even after his first two full years as a starter. There hasn't been an opportunity for a QB controversy since then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,595 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    That's what I mean. Similar situation with a much more established starter, and he made the decision to stick with the young guy - keeping bledsoe benched and cutting him after the season. I had high hopes for the last backup NE QB wearing number 4 though and that didnt work out well. I really think we could have something in zappe whereas i think, while Mac Jones will probably be a serviceable QB in the league, has a quite low ceiling. Kirk Cousins 2.0



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Coreyhotline


    The one wrinkle with the Bledsoe/Brady transition is that bill had already told Kraft at the start of that season that he believed Brady had won the qb competition in training camp, and was only starting Bledsoe in a rare moment of deference to RK. I doubt he believes Zappe is the starter, so Mac might have a bit more leash. Still, be interesting to see if zappe can make it a really tough decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    What Bailey has done to this point is pretty incredible. When Brady started off he averaged about 7 yards per attempt, when Mahomes started off he had a ridic first game where he averaged 14 yards per attempt but after that he averaged under 8 for quite a while.

    Bailey is over 9 yards per attempt at this early stage. He has a higher QBR that either of them had through their first three games. There's a whole lot of positives and very few negatives.

    It might light a fire under Mac's backside too which would be no harm because he knows if he doesn't perform that the bench is waiting for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,465 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    I don't think Belichek is every emotionally attached to anyone. if you make his team 1% better, he'll make the change



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,823 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    The Panthers being bad and now likely tanking is good news for the Patriots - we own their 3rd and 6th round picks next year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I completely forgot about that. Haven't we a Rams pick as well? It might work out a lot better than expected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,823 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    Yep, just checked and we do have the Rams 4th. May yet be a much better pick than anticipated.


    The Carolina pick was one we received so they could move up and draft Matt Corral. We dropped back, picked Zappe with their original pick and pocketed the 2023 3rd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    The silver pants are back tonight instead of navy on navy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mac back under center tonight with a fire lit under his backside. I'm hoping for big things.

    This offense is taking shape quickly. Thornton breaking out last week, tight ends starting to look really good, Meyers, Parker and the double headed monster in the backfield back tonight. It's all about the QB and OL. Wynn inactive tonight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    That is horrendous by Jones. Picked up where he left off pre-injury. Calls for Zappe will get louder now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,365 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Yeah and he really should be put in after what we've seen so far.



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