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New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Mac was better this week but taking chances like throwing a ball into double coverage has to stop.

    You gotta dink and dunk a good bit to get proper downfield opportunities.

    He had Meyers, Henry and Smith open a lot on shorter routes. He needs to be getting the ball to them a lot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,104 ✭✭✭ Shedite27


    Do we have the weaest group of recievers in the league at this stage? Can't think of any worse than the Pats WR/TE's



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,376 ✭✭✭ Mr. Guappa


    I think we've a solid group but we're missing a real top level receiver who would elevate the whole group.

    That said, there's surely more to come from this bunch. Bourne is in the dog house atm but was very good down the stretch last year, Parker can surely only improve, and Thornton looked good in pre-season before getting injured.

    TE is a worry though. Given the money we've invested at the position, the output is abysmal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭ Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    I do struggle to understand why BB has consistently neglected the receiving corps over the past few years.. It's a passing league and there's countless examples of QBs going from looking average to looking great with a good receiver or two. It's frustrating as a fan and I can only imagine how Mac feels about it. Brady, Edelman and Gronk were papering over cracks for years...



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    I don't think theres anything wrong with our tight ends. They are getting open but Mac is looking downfield instead of having shorter routes high up his progression list.

    I put up a good critique on Mac's performance in week 1 and you'll see that both Hunter and Jonno were open but not even looked at by Mac.

    I think Meyers is a great receiver and Agholor has improved a great deal since coming to New England. If Parker can stay healthy he'll be a big weapon. I liked Bourne a lot last year.

    Hopefully Thornton works out next year.

    We are not near the bottom as regards our receiving weapons. Let's be honest, it's not the receivers it's the QB. Look at the Chiefs receivers, nothing great outside of Kelce but Mahomes makes them look great, no superstar on the Packers but Rodgers has them looking good.

    Look at who Brady won Superbowls with, Edelman, Hogan and Gronk and nobody else, two years before that it was Edelman, Amendola, Mitchell, Hogan and Martellus Bennett. Go back to our first one, Troy Brown, Patten, Wiggins, Redmond and Edwards.

    If Mac sorts himself out and becomes less aggressive and more patient you'll see that we are fine as regards receivers. Brady would have a field day with our current group.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,104 ✭✭✭ Shedite27


    I like your optimism but they're miles off playoff level recievers.

    "Meyers is a great receiver" - 2 TD's in 50 career games.

    Parker turns 30 this season.

    Aghalor is a WR3 standard.

    Hopefully Thornton works out but there were a lot of LOL's around the league when he was drafted.

    When you see how recent first round rookies are faring, JJ, Chase, Waddle, London, Wilson, Dotson, it's an arms race these days



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Wes Welker had one TD in his first 55 games. He also played in the slot. Meyers is a great one, he's on the Welker path, he is intelligent, runs excellent routes and has great hands.

    Parker isn't a running back, he's got a few years left in him.

    Agholor is off to a nice start this season, if he keeps up what he's done in the first two games he'll have 1200 yards this season, I'm not saying that will happen but he could be back up near 1000. Will you call him WR1 if he does that? His only season with the Raiders he had just short of 900 yards and eight TDs. That was his best season. Then he comes to New England and has just short of 500 yards on shorter routes with a lot less targets playing with a game manager rookie QB. You underestimate him in my opinion.

    Who exactly was laughing when Thornton was selected in the second round? If you are talking about these 'draft experts' then I'm laughing at you for following their opinion.

    I don't often put up my thoughts on draft picks nowadays but I used to do it. I remember saying Derek Carr was the best QB in his class when they were all raving about Blake Bottles, Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel.

    I remember saying Luke Kuechly was the best player in 2012 draft, he was picked at nine and won defensive rookie of the year and then defensive player of the year the next season.

    I could give plenty more examples and I could give plenty of examples where I got it wrong and badly wrong as well but I'd consider myself as good if not better than Todd McShay and many other draftniks.

    I seen lots of Thornton last year and the two seasons before that. Baylor only played five games in 2020 and it was hard for anybody to look good as training was interrupted regularly by covid outbreaks. Tyquan broke out last season and looked like one of the best receivers in football. If he'd got a full season in 2020 at anywhere near the level he was at last year he'd have been a first round pick.

    Anyway back to our receivers, no receiver is going to have a great, or even good, season without a good QB. Mac still has to prove himself. I love the guy and want him to be a franchise QB but he needs to stop doing stupid things like throwing a ball up the middle into double coverage.

    He needs to improve his check down progression. It's okay to look long for no.1 but if he's not available you have to look short for 2 and 3. Unless you have a great OL you aren't getting the time to look long twice and then wait a second and wind up for the long throw.

    Both our tight ends are getting open a lot but he's not even looking at them. He did look at Henry in the last game but threw a poor ball to him. He threw three times at Jonnu but he was covered on two of them and threw a bad ball on the other one.

    Late in the first game he started to target them and they averaged around 10 yards per reception.

    Make no mistake about it, the problem right now is not our receivers and tight ends, it's our offensive line and quarterback.

    And I'm sitting here wearing my no.10 shirt right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Jamie Collins back again, the fourth time he's joined us. We've got great work from him, hopefully that continues. Hard to believe he's still only 32.

    It's amazing how quiet it's become when things are not going so well, seems like we had a lot of fairweather fans during the big years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 Coreyhotline


    I’d say a lot of people are like me, which is they really aren’t sure what we have this year. However, at this stage, I think it’s safe to say:

    a) if everyone is healthy and we play for 60 minutes, we will give everyone a game. I’m not so confident we’ll win them, but we’ll definitely be in them.

    b) I think the secondary and pass rush looks good, but not 100% sold on pass coverage at the second level, which is probably why Collins is back.

    c) run game and blocking has definitely picked up, and that will definitely be a strength this year.

    d) I thought it was brown under threat from cannon, but at the rate wynn is picking up penalties, he might be under more threat. It’s a bit strange he’s not more dialled in as this is his contract year, correct?

    e) the pass game will go as the qb goes, whoever that is. Mac has been really hot and cold, some phenomenal high difficulty throws with boneheaded rookie-type throws. I’m not sure if he feels pressure to do more, but hopefully a few weeks off allow him get it together.

    f) hard to say on offensive playcalling, again like mac there’s been some really nice series and then some poor calls you’d love to have back. I definitely think we need to find a way to get bourne on the field more (irrespective of his run blocking), out of the intermediate/deep threat type receivers I think he’s the most consistent.

    looking at the schedule, we could run the table to the bye if we have rookie season mac. Without him, hard to know but only thing I have absolute confidence in is that the defence will give us a chance to win in every game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Good post Corey, agree with almost everything you say there but I like the setup on offense and I'm surprised I'm saying that with our joint co-ordinators who I didn't have any confidence in.

    Mac has missed lots of chances to complete on shorter routes. Our two TE's are running excellent routes underneath and Mac rarely looks at them, he's looking to go deeper almost all the time and he has to stop doing that. You gotta complete shorter routes to open it up deep.

    I've never been a fan of Wynn, sooner we replace him the better.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34 Coreyhotline


    meant to post this earlier in the week. Interesting article on routes most used, patriots most popular routes seem to be in breaking routes. This might be a flawed recollection, but certainly at least half of Mac’s interceptions seem to be on out or outside the number routes where he really needs to drive the ball. I just wonder if this is a case of a mismatch between the skill set of the wr core and Mac’s skill set. His best connections seem to be with the receivers I think are more comfortable going over the middle like bourne and meyers. Parker is an outlier here because I’m really not sure where his comfort level is but I definitely feel aglohor is more of an outside the numbers type receiver, which is maybe why he hasn’t really had that great a connection with Mac. Anyway, interesting article.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 Coreyhotline


    And is if to illustrate my point, aglohor bobbles the ball on an in breaking slant and hey presto, interception. Looking back the throw looks a bit low but still he gets his hands on it, shoulda been a catch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Look, the fact is Mac is taking too many chances. I put up a video critiquing one of his performance and he never looked underneath. You gotta complete the ball short to prevent double and triple coverage deeper down the field. As long as teams are confident he isn't going for short routes they can have nickel and dime packages to control his game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭ Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    Boards in general has been hugely down since the revamp. Nothing to do with the Pats. I'd say this is one of the busier threads aside from the 2 main ones. Last year even the weekly game thread was dead.

    Also, the NFL allowing a sexual predator get the largest contract in NFL history has turned some people completely off the league.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,104 ✭✭✭ Shedite27


    Does anyone really know anyone who's stopped watching it for that reason?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭ Big Pussy Bonpensiero




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,104 ✭✭✭ Shedite27


    Did ya watch the Superbowl with Ray Lewis after he was accused of Murdering a guy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭ Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    I don't know.

    Whataboutery is a fairly weak argument though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,104 ✭✭✭ Shedite27


    I'm just saying, there's been scandals in the NFL forever, viewing figures continue to grow. I don't think this scandal is making Irish viewers turn off NFL (and boards as you suggested)



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Unfortunately people will watch Browns games hoping he gets hit hard and injured. The sad thing about that is the people who have total disregard for the victims and gave him this contract will profit from the higher viewing figures.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭ Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    I get that, the NFL in general seems to be one big controversy, but I don't think anything of this magnitude has ever happened before (I include the Ray Lewis incident too), and in addition to everything else that has preceded it, I think there's a cohort, a fairly small cohort granted, of people that this was the final straw. I haven't stopped watching it myself obviously, but I'm certainly less interested this year than last. I definitely will not be watching Watson play, even if he makes the Superbowl.

    As for the viewing figures, I think they will be growing this side of the Atlantic for many years to come. Despite how much more widespread the sport is, it's still very niche. Most people I know couldn't name any non-QB players and would even struggle to name more than 2 positions. There's huge room for growth in that regard, and the fact that it doesn't clash with any other sport is a massive plus. But if it were possible, I'd love to see the retention figures for the gamepass for example.

    And I think you'd be surprised by the effect it has had based on what you've said. It's not going to lead to mass boycotts by any means, but to think it has no effect is a bit narrow-minded tbh. Some people can't stomach seeing serious sexual predators featuring in a leading role in one of the world's richest sport. Some people can look the other way, and fair play to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,104 ✭✭✭ Shedite27


    From what I've seen so far, there's lots of callers to radio shows, people posting comments on twitter etc saying "I'll never watch again", I don't see the verocity of the response like we got for say Ched Evans in UK, where team sponsors were pulling money if he was signed. We saw what people power did in that case, Team sponsors pulling stadium naming rights, partners cancelling contracts with NFL would have been action rather than words. I don't get the feeling NFL are worried.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,601 ✭✭✭ AbusesToilets


    Wish we had the capital to make a play for CMC. Feel he'd literally be BB's dream of a RB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭ el Fenomeno


    Would be a fairly needless luxury IMO. Harris and Stevenson are a brilliant 1-2. Harris might not be here next year, but Stevenson looks like a superstar in the making IMO and I'd be very comfortable with him going forward. We have a lot of cap room, but Stevenson still on his rookie contract is a plus too. McCaffrey is on a huge contract.

    McCaffrey has some injury issues the last couple of years, and they're managing him very carefully again this year. He's only mid-20s but his usage has been very heavy. I think it's one we should avoid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ Speckydodge


    I think Mondre is getting pretty close to BB's dream as it is, he waxed poetic after the game last Sunday and it's easy to see why. Fell like he could be about to breakout into the superstar RB club. CMC for all his brilliance is made of glass unfortunately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,601 ✭✭✭ AbusesToilets


    I think CMC would be excellent in a committee set up. Avoid the mistakes made by the Panthers with him being run into the ground. He's legit a generational talent imo, everything White could do at a higher level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭ el Fenomeno


    Not doubting his talent at all and seems like exactly the type of player BB would like. I just think you don't take on the remaining 2.5 years of the biggest RB contract in league history when that player has been plagued by injuries for the first 2 years of it, especially when one of the brightest young talents on your team is at that position on a 4th round rookie contract. I'd rather we made a splash elsewhere. If we're looking at Panthers, then DJ Moore would be my preference for a skill position to plunder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,664 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Agree. CMC is one of the most dynamic RBs the league has ever seen. He's been ridden into the ground by carolina though. He has the workload of a 32+ year old RB on his odometer given the number of touches per game and per season he gets, coupled with the injuries.

    If he were a free agent coming off injury he'd be an ideal BB signing. Give him a prove it deal. But now to trade for him it would be too costly, and that contract is too much for a committee RB. I don't think he's made of glass, but short of kicking or playing defense he's in on every snap

    I dont think its fair to say he's neglected the receiving corps. A fairer criticism and one I would agree with, is that the picks and signings havent worked out. Harry was a first round WR. We spent a lot of money on two top TEs - not generational level like Kelce or Gronk but really good. The issue is the playcalling, and the lack of a great QB. Let's face it. What has the team got? A good to great defense, a very capable running game, I love stevensons play this year, the o line is not half bad after recent struggles, two good TEs and a hodge podge at WR of average to above average WRs. If your third string QB can come in and nearly beat AR and the packers, the team is good. QB is the issue. Is mac jones the answer? He's given as many "yes" as "no" plays. Much as I hate to say it, he reminds me of matt cassel. Basically the coaches trying to make him brady lite and run the same plays to mask his inability. It worked for a season with cassel but he got found out as a starter.

    I think we should go after baker mayfield in the off season. He's performing awfully and is on a one year deal. The perfect pats signing. Remember Moss was trash in OAK before his NE run.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    I'm in agreement with the last two posters as regards CMC.

    As regards QB, Baker Mayfield was awful with the Browns, is awful with the Panthers and will be awful wherever he ends up after that.

    Mac is still finding his way. He was a game manager last season and did a good job at that. It's quite clear he's been asked to be a bit more aggressive and he just has to balance things out a bit. He's not looking much at anybody open under ten yards downfield besides Meyers.

    He has to tone it down a bit and we'll have a great one I think.

    You have to remember he played on a great college team and aggressive was easy with Devonta Williams and Jaylen Waddle to throw to against less than stellar defensive backs most weeks. He's obviously had a lot of success in practice with Parker but you can't throw him the ball in double or triple coverage.

    The reason I mention Parker is that four of his five ints have been on throws to Parker.

    If I was looking to sign anybody I'd be looking at underperforming WRs like Darnell Mooney, Robbie Anderson and Jerry Jeudy. The reason all three are underperforming is QBs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,601 ✭✭✭ AbusesToilets


    If Lamar somehow became a free agent, would y'all support the Pats going for him? We're supposed to have quite a bit of cap room next season iirc



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