Russia - threadbanned users in OP

It's a battle that will be fought at 50000 ft, this isn't 1942

It would start on the ground with conventional deployment before escalating to anything like that. Have you not been watching Ukraine over the last 6 months?

If you're so rabid for it, I'm sure the International Legion of Ukrainian would take you.

That trench was only done for handiness sake and for film footage for some meagre propaganda win.

The first bomb hits that. It'll be funnelled along that trench. There'd be more damage done than out in the open. It's a freakin drainage trench for ffs. Dug by a drainage digger. Not even an obstacle for wheels or tracked vehicles after when drones and artillery make work of whoever would be in it.

What you think is one thing and what they can do is another. They were able to do this kind of stuff odd 25 years ago so by now this ability likely improved.

As I mentioned, they were well able to do it over 25 years ago so what make you think they cant do it now?

The trenches thing is a good sign. Looks like a defensive operation and that this could be a border that they are constructing. Now it's completely batshit crazy and thousands of their own will be killed but it may the begining of Russians saying "We'll take what we have".

Why, was there ever any official statement that Russia were pushing for the whole of Ukraine?

Putin stated his intent from the very outset with this "special operation", but yet people chose to ignore this and invent their own reality. Just because they attacked Kiev, people seemed to assume that they were making a play for the whole country. But it was all just rumours really.

Why wouldn't you attack Kiev, as part of a military operation to control part of the country? Kiev is the nerve center and a huge part of the command structure of the country. It would be foolish to leave the capital fully functioning, while trying to maintain control on the battlefield.

I don't think the Russians would be foolish enough to get sucked into an Iraq style quagmire, as this is exactly what the west is hoping for in order to help create regime change in Russia. They don't need military control of the entire country, in order to still maintain de-facto control over Ukraine. A severely crippled and fractured Ukraine, is in theory less of a potent threat to Russia. Although insurgency will probably be an issue they will have to tackle in the years to come - but they don't tend to handle insurgents/terrorists with soft hands like we do in the west. And the Ukrainians will be fully aware of this btw.

They can take the entire black sea coastline, or even most of it. Effectively turning Ukraine into a land locked rump state. And the responsibility will fall on western powers to rebuild most of Ukraine - the new sick dog of Europe. It will likely be a massive humanitarian catastrophe that will be a huge economic and social burden on the west for decades. Russia has always used other more covert methods of control, rather than relying solely on military power. (just like the US or any other bully in the playground) I don't see why this would necessarily change going forward.

And as regards these trenches, again it's all wild speculation. They could be literally anything. Perhaps they're laying a network of mines? Or other incendiary devices, to help create further carnage when they fall back into defensive positions inviting the Ukrainians onto them to hammer them with barrages of artillery - as they have apparently been doing quite a bit lately. Again, it's just speculation. They could be just about anything really.

Those trenches look like russians digging their own mass graves. How kind of them

The opposite is happening. The iron curtain has been obliterated for the last 33 years and the former countries that formed that depressing bloc are more determined than ever to maintain the situation that arose from that time. There are no queues of people at the borders of Russia and China etc seeking a better life in those countries it is the very opposite. Don’t mind what people say and proclaim talk is cheap look at what people are doing and where they are going you won’t be long finding the truth.

The frontlines with the least movement so far have been those in Donetsk region which have been heavily fortified and dug in for years - trench warfare works as defensive doctrine - the alternative is drones and artillery pinpointing you out in the open, where the blast will travel much farther hand you'll have even less cover.

Trenches will likely be sparsely filled with reservists through the winter as the first line of defence, with artillery and the rest further behind. The digging of these trenches just shows this conflict will not be over anytime soon, certainly not this year, possibly not next..

Russians claim to have counterattacked and retaken Terny, Yampolivka, Torsky near Kreminna. Looking to consolidate defensive positions ahead of winter

Putin stated his intent from the very outset with this "special operation", but yet people chose to ignore this and invent their own realit

Puttin's "special operation" was to overthrow the Ukraine government and install a puppet pro Russia government at the barrel of a gun.

That is a fact, that is reality.

But but but the Russians never stated it, would be at best remedial.

Makes sense why would you send a 40 mile convoy towards Kyiv just to take a small eastern part of Ukraine which they still can’t after 7 months.

And they decided halfway through to turn the 40 mile convoy around because they never really wanted Kyiv….

Amazing how the human and Russians mind can convince and lie to themselves when things go wrong that all this was part of the plan.

Its some trait, suppose like murderers and rapists etc, they actually convince themselves they are doing nothing wrong.

Except Ukraine are not insurgents or terrorists. It's their country.