NI Census 2021

Sam Russell · 07-10-2022 01:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712421#Comment_119712421

This is getting tiresome. I never suggested anything like ethnic cleansing, and if Arlene wants to stay or leave, that is entirely her decision.

Of course all Unionists, Loyalists, Nationalists, Republicans, and those others that do not fit into any of these categories, are most welcome into a UI.

Moreover, it is hoped that they contribute and benefit from a UI, as most certainly will.

blanch152 · 07-10-2022 01:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712688#Comment_119712688

You are the poster who has shouted down every single piece of evidence about the costs of a united Ireland, and now you bemoan the absence of a plan???

blanch152 · 07-10-2022 01:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712420#Comment_119712420

At risk of repeating myself, the web of lies that you weave around the words of other posters destroys discussion and debate.

I never said that I was smarter than anyone else.

Furze99 · 07-10-2022 01:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712867#Comment_119712867

Need to make the New Ireland attractive to all so. Compromise all round required.

FrancieBrady · 07-10-2022 02:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712934#Comment_119712934

You spotted 'square brackets' that two civil services and 2 leaders didn't recognise the import of and organised a press/photo op to hail a deal to resume the Executive only for the DUP to walk away again.

I said 'you were smarter' than them, I never claimed you said it.

blanch152 · 07-10-2022 02:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713020#Comment_119713020

That is why Varadkar was putting federal solutions on the table at the weekend. That he was booed by the United Irelanders for doing so shows the long road we have to travel, another few decades, before a sensible proposal can be put on the table.

FrancieBrady · 07-10-2022 02:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713247#Comment_119713247

Having corrected you on what actually happened (his contribution was applauded, and he was booed by a small number when making a different point to the federal one) this has to be seen as willful lying about what happened.

P.S. Leo was there as a 'United Irelander' BTW.

blanch152 · 07-10-2022 03:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713414#Comment_119713414

You can watch it online, it was in response to him reaching out.

FrancieBrady · 07-10-2022 03:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713596#Comment_119713596

He did NOT get booed because he suggested a federal solution which is what you said here:

That is why Varadkar was putting federal solutions on the table at the weekend. That he was booed by the United Irelanders for doing so shows the long road we have to travel, another few decades, before a sensible proposal can be put on the table.

Mr.Nice Guy · 08-10-2022 12:36AM

Interesting piece from unionist commentator, Newton Emerson, in the Irish Times on Thursday. Article was titled 'Vision of unity still at the fantasy stage - paradise without the pain'. I thought this was a useful point on the federalism debate:

'Northern Ireland could not endure as a polity, which is what Stormont's survival would mean, should nationalism win a border poll.

'It would be irrational under the two-communities model of the agreement for unionism to become the smaller community and still trap a nationalist majority behind a border.

'The emerging three-communities model of unionist, nationalist and other introduces a complication. When a fifth of the population have a Northern Ireland-only identity, it becomes theoretically possible for a vote against the union to not be a vote against partition. However, there would be no way to gauge this under the binary poll required by the agreement and, in any case, it would be an unworkable outcome. Nationalists might withdraw from Stormont, understandably, and that would be the end of it.

'The logical continuance of the Belfast Agreement into a united Ireland would be to adopt some of its powersharing protections in Dublin, such as weighted voting in the Dail or mandatory offers of Cabinet seats, preferably without the vetoes that have caused deadlock at Stormont.'

I agree with the general thrust of this. A federal option is impractical. Stormont has been down 40% of its entire history and as Emerson points out, it could only continue as a powersharing executive if the nationalist parties want it to. It could even be a big can of worms if, say, Sinn Fein were to collapse a northern assembly and then you had the Dublin assembly - possibly also led by SF - then taking decisions that affect loyalist areas in the North. Then you'd have loyalists complaining that they were promised two assemblies only to be left with one. They'd say they were hoodwinked, conned, etc.

Far better imo to have one executive for the island, and to provide safeguards for the unionists through that.

jm08 · 08-10-2022 12:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713596#Comment_119713596

Nope. I was there and the booing came from just behind me (maybe 4 or 5 people). The reason he was booed was because Leo was advocating a solution which would suit FG politics without any discussion. No other speaker went that route of saying what it should be. All were advocating that discussion/assemblies was needed. Indeed, I can't remember who actually said that the politicians need to get out of the discussion for now, and let civil society sort it.

Leo was not reaching out. He came across as very arrogant deciding the solution. I can understand why people there were annoyed with him. All he was advocating was to just change the sovereignty from London to Dublin. He knows that FG's days are numbered in a UI - FG will never be in power again (unless with a coalition with some of the unionist parties).

blanch152 · 08-10-2022 01:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716041#Comment_119716041

The only one who presented anything other than a single unitary state was booed, that says it all about the ability of exclusionary nationalism to compromise.

jm08 · 08-10-2022 08:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716131#Comment_119716131

Leo was the only one making a statement as to what type of State he wanted. Leo was proposing a single unitary state with sovereignty from Dublin and Stormont to continue as is. Way too early to be proposing something like this without any consultation with any of the main stakeholders. His plan was totally FG, top down self interest.

FrancieBrady · 08-10-2022 09:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716131#Comment_119716131

He wasn't the ONLY one, Jim O'Callaghan also spoke of a federal solution. And other speakers stressed that the solution and way we wanted to be governed had to be open to discussion.

Varadkar was applauded for his contribution like everyone else was.

But of course blanch will present 3 to 4 people booing for a short period as a house full of 'exclusionary nationalists'.

Agenda's and all that.

FrancieBrady · 08-10-2022 09:45AM

Speaking of 'exclusionary'.

I’m working for Reuters news agency & LBC News today. #DUP @duponline

press officer John Robinson has said I won’t be allowed into the conference because I was at the Ireland’s Future conference. I was at the conference as a journalist, a paid interviewer.

https://twitter.com/AmandaFBelfast/status/1578658711358226432

FraserburghFreddie · 08-10-2022 06:49PM

Varadkar and Coveney saying the protocol is too strict must be a slap in the face for those who like to blame everything on UK intransigence.

FrancieBrady · 08-10-2022 07:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718389#Comment_119718389

Everybody (well, almost everyone) knew there were checks and balances and flexibilities built into sort unforseen issues. They'll be what will now be used to reach an agreement between the EU and UK.

downcow · 08-10-2022 08:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716032#Comment_119716032

What would those safeguards look like?

downcow · 08-10-2022 08:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716516#Comment_119716516

You are telling us 3 or 4 people could be heard booing 😂😂😂 I thought there was a claim that the massive publicity had managed to achieve about one third of the seats were occupied in the arena. If 3 or 4 people could create such a noise then I smell a rat

Speedline · 08-10-2022 08:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718761#Comment_119718761

There's another one in Belfast on the 12th of October. You can go to it and openly sneer at them instead of doing it on here behind a keyboard.

FrancieBrady · 09-10-2022 09:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718925#Comment_119718925

Bryson and his allies are already threatening trouble at that one.

Unionism, banning journalists, on governance strike, trying to ferment violence is on the backfoot bigtime.

Mr.Nice Guy · 09-10-2022 11:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718733#Comment_119718733

Weighted voting, cabinet seats as mentioned in the article would be a start. I'd imagine also a ministry role for East-West relations would be an option too.

deirdremf · 09-10-2022 10:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119720549#Comment_119720549

What do you mean by weighted voting? And who would the cabinet seats be for?

Sam Russell · 10-10-2022 09:09AM

Look, if there was a UI, then the population of those not born on the island of Ireland would be close to, or exceed, those who vote Unionist in NI.

15% of the population of Ireland were not born in Ireland - British, Poles, Africans, EU26, plus many more.

The Unionists should get the same rights as any citizen of Ireland if there was unification.

blanch152 · 10-10-2022 10:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716516#Comment_119716516

Glad to see that federal solutions are now becoming mainstream. It is only a few months since I posted about it and was shouted down on here.

blanch152 · 10-10-2022 10:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718389#Comment_119718389

So the Unionists have a case?

downcow · 10-10-2022 10:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724532#Comment_119724532

The census also tells us that 0.2% use Irish as their preferred language. Would you say that group is getting a wee bit of preferential treatment above what their numbers would require. So why not other minorities in a ‘new Ireland’?

downcow · 10-10-2022 10:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119720280#Comment_119720280

Do you have a link to “Bryson threatening trouble” at the Belfast pantomime?

FraserburghFreddie · 10-10-2022 10:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724742#Comment_119724742

Looks like it but the great and good across boards(disgruntled republicans and anti British brigade)don't like it as it doesn't fit into their version of things.

FrancieBrady · 10-10-2022 10:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724742#Comment_119724742

If they had a strategic brain, there was always a case to use the built-in flexibility. They decided to double down on their Brexit backing and drove themselves into the cul-de-sac they now find themselves in.

NI Census 2021

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