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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I don't want links, I want you to provide the nature and number of attrocities actually carried out, thanks, with links as backup, but just dumping links is not an argument.

    I clicked on your first link, just for interest, and it shows two white guys having an organised fight, I believe Ireland's own travellers provide similar entertainments, is that justification for Putin to invade Ireland? the BBC one shows some poseurs strutting around the place wearing symbols and bluster.

    All you have succeeded in doing is reinforced the notion that the supposed pretext is about as serious as a couple of cats having it out at 02:00 am.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    There are also cultural differences as far as mass portest goes. Russians, save for a sadly all too brief time when they riddled or drove out their aristocracy and czar, live in a culture of a strong man leads and protects us all we have to do is swear allegience to him as Russia personified. A culture that is far more like an old style European feudalism bolstered by the church. Something that Western Europe and her colonies moved away from during the Enlightenment. The French revolution a more bloody example. The "divine right royals" of most of Western Europe saw their power diluted or removed, even if royalist sympathy as a prop of patriotism was retained(our nearest neighbour an example of that).

    This didn't happen to nearly the same degree in Russia, if at all. Maybe because such a vast land empire needed that to survive? America took to federalism, invivdualism under one flag and the American Dream(tm) to keep that together. The czar retained the power exercised by his lords/boyars over the mercantile class and peasants. Well right until the people thought sod this and took them down. But the culture remained. So after a while they installed another version of what they were used to in Stalin and faith in communism replaced the church.

    Now in war this arrangment(and this was in play in feudal Europe too) generally meant their king and his nobles waged wars, with peasant armies yes, but at some remove. Most peasants were quite distanced from the actual fighting and dying. This was the "agreement" between peasants and kings. We swear fealty and pay our taxes, you do the nasty stuff for us. Then mechanised massed armies and death came along and that shifted things about. In Western democracies the arrangement became this affects us all so you will fight to protect these rights of yours behind people you voted for, or felt like you voted for. In Russia it didn't and the chickens came home to roost when during the Great War the peasants of Russia were being directly affected by massive losses and hardship at home. Cue the Russian Revolution.

    Post the Revolution and after a glimmer of hope it was back to a mix of the old feudal behind Uncle Joe, but with nationalist propaganda and zeal on top. Dying for Mother Russia and all that. Something that putin has been pushing over his reign milking the memory of the tens of millions Russian dead in their fight against the Nazis(who Uncle Joe was in bed with before the war dividing up Eastern Europe, but never mind...).

    So IMHO this Czarist feudal system of culture is still very much in play within the empire of Russia today and putin has encouraged it as a protection and insulation against dissent. And after the horrific 90's and a serious insecurity within the Russian psyche over being seen as a bunch of failed primitives, he gave them back a semblance of a balanced society and national pride. Note after their failure to take Kyiv and their Special Run Away Operation recently in the east, Russian criticism and there was much, was aimed at his boyars, his generals, anyone but the Czar.

    It was also a Special Military Operation where the Russian everyman was like the peasant of old, largely insulated and distanced from it. Especially in his western powerbase of support. They could watch their nightly news, support our boys and our Czar, smash up iphones on Telegram, with the Punch and Judy shows on TV telling them they were against the nazis and the west telling them they were winning against both. Until the cracks became too obvious and putin needed to throw more people at the problem.

    The problem for putin with this mobilisation is he's changed that old contract now. It's not just ethnics from Arsebackistan dying for Mother Russia, or paid groups like Wagner, it'll be Oleg and Vasily from your neighbourhood coming back in boxes, or maybe you. On top of sanctions that will bite more and more in his Western powerbase cities. I don't see a Russian Revolution Part Deux, but it's not too unlike how the first one kicked off.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Interesting detail here (apart from the dissent) is that the commander appears to tell them that they will get just 2 weeks training before joining a unit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Dictatorships have to look strong. It doesn't mean they are. Democracies look weak to dictatorships, but tend to be strong when threatened by them.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III



    Jesus. Their eastern front must be about to collapse if that's the level of desperation. Can't blame the pressganged 'soldiers' for being upset.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    To be fair in past Russian Referendums the turnout has been extraordinary.

    In one City in Crimea the dead literally rose to vote for Mother Russia.

     in Sevastopol, Ukraine, 123 percent of the population just “voted” on whether Crimea should join the Russian Federation. 

    90,000 voting zombies, you can't get more democratic than that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Yes really. The more men Putin sends in against superior western trained soldiers with modern arms and equipment the more body bags Russia will need. It's going to be a slaughter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,377 ✭✭✭paul71


    As I said link dumping to the utterly irrelevant or indeed to things directly contradicting the argument they purport to support.

    Clicking on links provided by someone who uses expressions like "western media" is pointless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭storker


    Never-ending? I doubt it. I think the west could finish it very quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,377 ✭✭✭paul71


    There you go guys, he did not read the reports he linked to and admits it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    they will literally need the modern equivalent of the NKVD detachments that were positioned behind the Russian troops in WW2 to ahem, encourage, them to their glorious patriotic destiny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Disorganised rabble. And poster on here last night claimed this mob would be rolling into Poland 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,156 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Russia's not going to need any body bags because they'll just leave those corpses to rot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I just put them on ignore, makes the thread readable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,713 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    One of the commentariat says it should be translated as 'two weeks additional training." I guess them being veterans and all.


    If someone got up and fragged that guy, I'd have some hopes for the Russian people. They're fleeing not because they're against the war - they're against being forced to participate in it, is all. Wondering if their jobs will still be there? Really? Sad



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    Good point. It's actually been Ukrainians gathering the bodies of the dead Russian soldiers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭gw80


    That is probably going to happen with the sanctions,he will call the sanctions a direct attack on Russia ,why not, it will be the only weapon left to him to get them lifted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Housefree


    I haven't time to go through it now and take the parts he wants out of it. I'm sure you knew what I meant though



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    You wanna make an argument here in favour of, or to tolerate Russian aggression? Then:-

    You do the research. You present actual verifiable facts that back up your points.

    Otherwise, get lost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Housefree


    Without ending the world? How could they?

    Iraq/Afghanistan, they haven't got a great track record at ending things quickly against far less competition



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    I'll give you a "like" purely for the effort it took to write that post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    Sure, but anyone can predict a swift victory.

    Very different thing actually making it a reality.

    The west thought they'd sort Iraq and Afghanistan out fairly quickly, then they toiled in the desert for 2 decades without that decisive victory. And the Taliban walked straight back into power.

    All the human misery, for what exactly?

    Arrogance is hubris. And the west do it as well as anyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Housefree


    The argument was about the well documented far right problem in Ukraine not the illegal invasion by Russia



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    And “no one will fire you from your job” 😂 like that’s a perk!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    If Russia was planning on using WMD [weapons mass destruction] they wound not say a thing about it. In much the same way they planned the Ukrainian invasion. Russia denied their plans and still insist its not an invasion.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭storker


    It would be for Putin to end the world. western hardware and troops are capable enough of sending Putin's forces back across the border with conventional weapons.

    This is a conventional regular war; Iraq and Afghanistan were irregular guerilla wars, apart from the brief period during which the war in Iraq was conventional, and which the US won quite handily.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,759 ✭✭✭weisses




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭I Blame Sheeple


    Insurgencies are a different kettle of fish and they usually never end with victory for the occupying force.

    They could end it with one well placed missile up Putin's bunghole and then quietly tell his successor how easy it was to do but they won't.

    America need this war to keep themselves 'free' and rolling in the arms money.



This discussion has been closed.
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