Got a letter regarding smart meter

MATTYON · 04-03-2022 2:32pm #1

Hi guys

Just got a letter from ESB saying I am due to have a smart meter installed.

Trying to figure out the right way to go

I have heard that some people who have had solar installed have lost the savings benefit of solar.

Has any one had that experience or has the smart meter had no negative impact at all.

Thanks

Leroy42 · 04-03-2022 2:34pm

Why would it be a negative? It reads the meter in real time (well not really but does away with manual reads) and having solar will still mean you are using less ESB electricity?

What negative impacts do you think will accrue from the smart meter?

MATTYON · 04-03-2022 2:41pm

What I have heard is that the smart meters were reporting total consumption and not distinguishing between grid or solar use,meaning that people were being charged for total consumption

so I'm wondering if that is still problem.

Coddle4dinner · 04-03-2022 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118731324#Comment_118731324

Because you'll end up paying more is a big negative of them.

bullit_dodger · 04-03-2022 4:09pm

There is a whole thread on this......

Smart Tariff Unit Rates - Page 11 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

It's not the technology of a Smart Meter verses the old standard meter that's at issue - it's the tariffs associated with the SmartMeters. Right now most people who have solar can charge their batteries up at night rate and then use that during the following day when the daytime rates are in. I save about €1/day alone (forgetting solar generation) on just doing that.

However, many of the smart meter tariffs are basically "Pants" in respect to allowing you to do that, so you end up paying more as Coddle4dinner mentions. This I think is changing and some of the electric companies are introducing newer more competitive tariffs to compare favouribly to the day/night tariff that most of us are on.....but I've not really kept up to date with the latest here.

irishchris · 04-03-2022 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118731361#Comment_118731361

Have had a smart meter installed for months now and no it doesn't charge you for total consumption including solar. It basically reads and charges only for energy you purchase from the grid. It also reads what you give back to the grid but at the minute you are not getting paid for that.

There are some woeful smart packages around but there are some really good ones too like the bord gais EV plan I'm on. Day 18c, night I think is around 12/13c and from 2-5 am it's 4.5c. Through winter I used this 4.5c rate to charge my batteries and use that so no day units were purchased. Less so now that solar generation is picking up though

MATTYON · 04-03-2022 11:35pm

That's great to hear

Thanks

Bobeagleburger · 04-03-2022 11:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058235841/got-a-letter-regarding-smart-meter

You can refuse/delay it. I did. No problems at all.

Day/Night meter is a much better option.

del roy · 10-03-2022 9:23am

Just like to warn everyone

a few years ago I go a smart meter installed, everything grand for a few months then a bill for two months €4,437.62.

Rang them up, said I think there is a mistake here I couldn't have used that amount, ignored me and put me straight through to credit department to make huge monthly payments. They were a nightmare, stating all the time if its on the metre you must have used it. They were useless god help me if I was an older person and just agreed monthly payments.

Anyway it turned out the metre was faulty and the guy who came to take it away to be checked said there was loads getting checked.

Beware...

bullit_dodger · 10-03-2022 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761040#Comment_118761040

Yikes! Nasty business del roy.

To be fair though, you could have a fault in any piece of tech. You could also have installed a day/night meter and with it being faulty a huge bill resulted from that. No? The reason I say that is that they have a legal obligation to meter correctly, and while faults I'm sure do occur, for the most part I wouldn't think smart meters are any worse (or better) in terms of accuracy over the older types.

I assume they refunded all your payments?

JimmyVik · 10-03-2022 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118732118#Comment_118732118

I saw the ones who had lower unit rates had far higher standing charges. Panda is one such example.

graememk · 10-03-2022 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762616#Comment_118762616

Nothing new there, day night meters always had much higher day rates esp Energia. It's always a balance between unit rates and standing charges

MATTYON · 19-03-2022 11:14am

Hi del Roy

Do you still have a smart meter or did you get rid of it

MATTYON · 01-06-2022 9:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118732799#Comment_118732799

How does the transition from old meter to smart meter work in regards to your previous reading?

i believe the smart meter will start at 0?

does that mean you are forced to go onto a smart meter rate.

do i need to contact my supplier to let them know?

irishchris · 01-06-2022 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142976#Comment_119142976

No you do not need to change whatsoever to a smart plan. They will try to convince you to but I wouldn't recommend it yet. Your reading will go to zero on this meter but your next bill will have two readings on it. Your usage prior to the meter and new usage from 0-? Whatever you use before bill

del roy · 14-09-2022 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761040#Comment_118761040

Sorry lads

Yes I still have smart meter however ELECTRIC IRELAND were a nightmare to deal with basically pay up or we will have to cut you off.

Anyway it turned out the metre was faulty and the guy who came to take it away to be checked said there was loads getting checked.

ELM327 · 14-09-2022 11:51am

Smart meter - dont consent to having it installed. Don't move to a smart plan as they are more expensive. Get the smart meter removed.

Bass Reeves · 14-09-2022 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616555#Comment_119616555

All the country is being upgraded to smart meters before 2025 I think. Mine was done last year. There has been no change as I have not opted for a smart plan.

You will be upgraded anyway

ELM327 · 14-09-2022 12:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616585#Comment_119616585

On renewal you will only be shown smart plans.

MCC02 customers will not be changed yet as the CRU has not outlined a plan to change. This is because they have not solved the problem that the consumer and supply company have a contract and the network cannot unilaterally change this

Bass Reeves · 14-09-2022 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616629#Comment_119616629

You may only be shown smart meter plans but my understanding is you do not have to opt for one. You can go on straight day rates until the smart meter plans are rolled out.

Mine was as installed June '22, I change suppliers in November and stayed on an ordinary rate

slave1 · 14-09-2022 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616585#Comment_119616585

It's not mandatory, we will not all be "upgraded anyway", been covered on the forum many times over.

If you have a Smart Meter at present you can have it replaced with a less intrusive Day/Night meter at zero cost, just request off your electricity provider and they will manage the process free of charge

ELM327 · 19-09-2022 3:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617830#Comment_119617830

Exactly. And once you get on a day/night tariff you become an MCC02 customer and are not permitted to be automatically changed to a smart meter.

emeraldsky · 19-09-2022 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638008#Comment_119638008

Forgive the ignorant American here! My husband and I are moving to Ireland soon and I have been wondering if you are allowed to decline having a smart meter installed, or if they are mandatory? I'd appreciate clarification. Thank you so much in advance!

slave1 · 19-09-2022 5:14pm

You can decline https://notosmart.wordpress.com/what-to-do/

idc · 19-09-2022 5:44pm

They will replace day/night meters eventually too though, yes I expect as with 24 hour meters there will be people who refuse, but CRU did plan for day/night meter upgrades in a phase 3 of the roll out plan.

The main issue with day/night is the fact they have no equivalent day/night plan for people who don't want a smart plan! If they had solved this issue originally they'd be no need to handle 24hr vs day/night meters differently

ELM327 · 19-09-2022 6:11pm

They can't currently change you from an MCC02 day night meter as there are no plans available on a smart meter to match your tariff and they (ESBN) cannot interfere in the contract between you and your supplier

idc · 19-09-2022 6:59pm

Exactly if the smart meters had allowed for the basic day/night mode as we currently have with MCC02 then they could of simply upgraded everyone without needing to worry if it was 24hr or day/night. The current day/night meters can be used for either 24hr or day/night as it reports all 3 values - 24 hour / Day and Night reading.

slave1 · 19-09-2022 7:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638591#Comment_119638591

"They will replace day/night meters eventually too though"

It's been covered here before and in Minister's Questions, it cannot be enforced. If you have it in writing then fire ahead and post it.

idc · 20-09-2022 8:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638873#Comment_119638873

I never said it would be enforced same as with 24 hr meters. You can refuse smart meter if your on a normal 24 hour meter. Same way when they do work our how to roll out smart meters to replace Day/Night you'll still be able to refuse.

Citizen Six · 20-09-2022 8:56am

So you don't think it might get to a stage where they will just disconnect you from the grid if you refuse to upgrade your meter?

Flinty997 · 20-09-2022 9:15am

I ignored the requests to change mine. They stopped asking a few months back.

ELM327 · 20-09-2022 9:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638858#Comment_119638858

The issue is that they send 4 readings, not two. Total, Day, Peak, Night. This doesnt conform to a day/night meter where 2 sub readings (day + night) are recorded. It would require some smarts to have "day+peak" as the day and "night" as night. The meter doesnt seem to support this. And this is why you cant be moved to a smart meter if you are MCC02

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640323#Comment_119640323

Not in the near future. The current smart meters are not capable of offering the standard day/night rate, it's a limitation of the hardware, so it would require another rollout to add them to MCC02 customers

Citizen Six · 20-09-2022 9:25am

It seems illogical that they can't be used for day night tariff. Especially as they read day and night usage. Surely it doesn't matter if they also read other information.

And don't also send a reading for energy you have generated via panels, etc?

Flinty997 · 20-09-2022 9:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640425#Comment_119640425

Could they not reconcile the day night readings at the backend somewhere.

ELM327 · 20-09-2022 9:38am

Obviously not. There' a T1,T2,and T3. The issue is the total day (ie day+peak) on a smart meter is not displayed anywhere

Flinty997 · 20-09-2022 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640504#Comment_119640504

But if it's sending back constant reading it's a matter of maths.

idc · 20-09-2022 9:50am

They won't disconnect you but I think your choice of supplier will decrease.

Once 24 hour and day/night smart upgrade is complete (excluding those who refuse or for whatever other reason they can't change) then the energy companies will slowly stop supporting plans for non smart meters.

So for example you'll be able to stay on old plan but if you move supplier, the new supplier will only ofter smart plans to new customers, obviously people who wish to remain or refuse a smart meter will need a plan somewhere and in that I case I expect supplier of last resort will have to continue to provide plans for non smart meters -- ie electric ireland!!

Similarly FIT deemed export - once the smart migration is deemed complete I would expect all suppliers to require users to have a smart meter to calculate actual export, the only reason they had to add deemed export is due to the fact so many users are on Day/Night and can't move to a smart meter.

connesha · 20-09-2022 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640323#Comment_119640323

Disconnect: can't see that happening.

What could happen... once the Smart Meter rollout reaches a critical level, or everyone that hasn't refused one has one, the prices on the non-smart plans/meters could rise significantly higher than Smart Plans, to "encourage" the remaining to move... Hard to imagine being rewarded for refusing the Smart Meter in the medium/long term, once it gets down to a small percent of people that don't have one. I guess lets see... its just guessing at this stage...

ELM327 · 20-09-2022 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640556#Comment_119640556

If it could do it, they would have brought this in during the CRU consultation.

Flinty997 · 20-09-2022 10:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640597#Comment_119640597

It's such a glaring omission feels like it was deliberate to get rid of those rates.

ELM327 · 20-09-2022 10:05am

Maybe that was what they were trying to do, but only after that some consultant told them it would be contractually problematic to unilaterally end contracts between two third parties.

connesha · 20-09-2022 10:08am

The provider has all your usage in 30 min intervals. Some even give you access to this (e.g. you can download a CSV from BordGais that contains your 30-min usage history, incl. for yesterday).

Nothing stopping a provider giving a plan that mimics the D/N rates; charge the same for Peak as for Day. Can remove the DST shift if they want.

They could charge a different rate for every 30 min interval if they wanted. Some providers are doing a "4th Tier": See the EV rate Smart Plans where they charge reduced rates from 2am to 5AM.

But yea, if someone wants to look at their meter, to press the buttons and see their "total day" usage there, they would need to add T2 and T3. (assuming DST shift is removed)

Flinty997 · 20-09-2022 10:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640620#Comment_119640620

Just feels like a upper management / bean counter play. To remove functionality in an "upgrade".

graememk · 20-09-2022 10:09am

But companies are already doing different tariffs outside the day/night/peak

The free day at the weekend, night boost etc.

There is nothing stopping them from doing a comparable DN tariff.. other than just choosing not to.

BronsonTB · 20-09-2022 10:13am

Maybe a few of the other posters here should have a read before giving poor info out.

OP - Have a read here - https://selectra.ie/energy/guides/meters/smart-meters-ireland

Flinty997 · 20-09-2022 10:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640659#Comment_119640659

What poor info?

bad2thebone · 20-09-2022 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118731324#Comment_118731324

Does the power of the meter come from your bill or does the supplier pay for it ?

ELM327 · 20-09-2022 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640659#Comment_119640659

Looks like only your link is giving poor info

"In contrast, a smart meter can track when you use your electricity and not just how much. This gives you more control as to when to use larger appliances and benefit from lower electricity tariffs. "

BronsonTB · 20-09-2022 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640669#Comment_119640669

Example - Bass reeves said - 'You will be upgraded anyway' (not true, you can opt out)

FLINTY997 - Nothing to do with your posts!

I provided a link to good info for OP!

Flinty997 · 20-09-2022 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640696#Comment_119640696

I just wanted to know what posted was incorrect.

I suspect people have had different experiences depending on what service agent they've spoken to.

graememk · 20-09-2022 10:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640696#Comment_119640696

Yeah there's plenty of poor info there.

You don't need a smart meter to measure your useage, you can get a house energy monitor that would give a more accurate instantaneous readings rather than a 30 min average.

People have got them removed, @ELM327 has done it recently.

They currently are not cheaper for a majority of people, compared to standard day night tariffs.

I don't think the smart meters here support the in home monitor yet,

The majority of saving are from increased awareness of use and more accurate billing is a laugh, either submit your readings or just wait it out as usually it's read every 4 months, and if over estimated the first period, you don't pay as much the second one.

I would recommend everyone get a energy monitor if they are looking to save money. That's what a lot of people that get solar notice. It's the first time seeing the live usage.

So no.. not a great source of info.

Got a letter regarding smart meter

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