Got a letter regarding smart meter

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638858#Comment_119638858

The issue is that they send 4 readings, not two. Total, Day, Peak, Night. This doesnt conform to a day/night meter where 2 sub readings (day + night) are recorded. It would require some smarts to have "day+peak" as the day and "night" as night. The meter doesnt seem to support this. And this is why you cant be moved to a smart meter if you are MCC02

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640323#Comment_119640323

Not in the near future. The current smart meters are not capable of offering the standard day/night rate, it's a limitation of the hardware, so it would require another rollout to add them to MCC02 customers

Citizen Six

It seems illogical that they can't be used for day night tariff. Especially as they read day and night usage. Surely it doesn't matter if they also read other information.

And don't also send a reading for energy you have generated via panels, etc?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640425#Comment_119640425

Could they not reconcile the day night readings at the backend somewhere.

ELM327

Obviously not. There' a T1,T2,and T3. The issue is the total day (ie day+peak) on a smart meter is not displayed anywhere

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640504#Comment_119640504

But if it's sending back constant reading it's a matter of maths.

idc

They won't disconnect you but I think your choice of supplier will decrease.

Once 24 hour and day/night smart upgrade is complete (excluding those who refuse or for whatever other reason they can't change) then the energy companies will slowly stop supporting plans for non smart meters.

So for example you'll be able to stay on old plan but if you move supplier, the new supplier will only ofter smart plans to new customers, obviously people who wish to remain or refuse a smart meter will need a plan somewhere and in that I case I expect supplier of last resort will have to continue to provide plans for non smart meters -- ie electric ireland!!

Similarly FIT deemed export - once the smart migration is deemed complete I would expect all suppliers to require users to have a smart meter to calculate actual export, the only reason they had to add deemed export is due to the fact so many users are on Day/Night and can't move to a smart meter.

connesha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640323#Comment_119640323

Disconnect: can't see that happening.

What could happen... once the Smart Meter rollout reaches a critical level, or everyone that hasn't refused one has one, the prices on the non-smart plans/meters could rise significantly higher than Smart Plans, to "encourage" the remaining to move... Hard to imagine being rewarded for refusing the Smart Meter in the medium/long term, once it gets down to a small percent of people that don't have one. I guess lets see... its just guessing at this stage...

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640556#Comment_119640556

If it could do it, they would have brought this in during the CRU consultation.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640597#Comment_119640597

It's such a glaring omission feels like it was deliberate to get rid of those rates.

ELM327

Maybe that was what they were trying to do, but only after that some consultant told them it would be contractually problematic to unilaterally end contracts between two third parties.

connesha

The provider has all your usage in 30 min intervals. Some even give you access to this (e.g. you can download a CSV from BordGais that contains your 30-min usage history, incl. for yesterday).

Nothing stopping a provider giving a plan that mimics the D/N rates; charge the same for Peak as for Day. Can remove the DST shift if they want.

They could charge a different rate for every 30 min interval if they wanted. Some providers are doing a "4th Tier": See the EV rate Smart Plans where they charge reduced rates from 2am to 5AM.

But yea, if someone wants to look at their meter, to press the buttons and see their "total day" usage there, they would need to add T2 and T3. (assuming DST shift is removed)

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640620#Comment_119640620

Just feels like a upper management / bean counter play. To remove functionality in an "upgrade".

graememk

But companies are already doing different tariffs outside the day/night/peak

The free day at the weekend, night boost etc.

There is nothing stopping them from doing a comparable DN tariff.. other than just choosing not to.

BronsonTB

Maybe a few of the other posters here should have a read before giving poor info out.

OP - Have a read here - https://selectra.ie/energy/guides/meters/smart-meters-ireland

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640659#Comment_119640659

What poor info?

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118731324#Comment_118731324

Does the power of the meter come from your bill or does the supplier pay for it ?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640659#Comment_119640659

Looks like only your link is giving poor info

"In contrast, a smart meter can track when you use your electricity and not just how much. This gives you more control as to when to use larger appliances and benefit from lower electricity tariffs. "

BronsonTB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640669#Comment_119640669

Example - Bass reeves said - 'You will be upgraded anyway' (not true, you can opt out)

FLINTY997 - Nothing to do with your posts!

I provided a link to good info for OP!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640696#Comment_119640696

I just wanted to know what posted was incorrect.

I suspect people have had different experiences depending on what service agent they've spoken to.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640696#Comment_119640696

Yeah there's plenty of poor info there.

You don't need a smart meter to measure your useage, you can get a house energy monitor that would give a more accurate instantaneous readings rather than a 30 min average.

People have got them removed, @ELM327 has done it recently.

They currently are not cheaper for a majority of people, compared to standard day night tariffs.

I don't think the smart meters here support the in home monitor yet,

The majority of saving are from increased awareness of use and more accurate billing is a laugh, either submit your readings or just wait it out as usually it's read every 4 months, and if over estimated the first period, you don't pay as much the second one.

I would recommend everyone get a energy monitor if they are looking to save money. That's what a lot of people that get solar notice. It's the first time seeing the live usage.

So no.. not a great source of info.

ELM327

Not only do they not support the in home monitor, ESB have locked that panel in the meter!

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640405#Comment_119640405

Eventually they might mandate a smart meter, but before then.....they can achieve the same thing by simply making the D/N tariff so exceedingly expensive compared to the smart tariffs that people will just migrate.

Let's face it, if smart tariffs were simply "better" fiscally than D/N we'd all be on them....

irishchris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616555#Comment_119616555

Don't have to go on smart plan but be aware having it removed will mean you are ineligible for any fit payments

ELM327

Yet again, for the millionth time, if you get it removed for an MCC02 day night meter, you are eligible for deemed fit. This is because you havent refused a smart meter, technically you are not eligible for a smart meter under the rollout.

Commoner

Can you opt out of having a smart meter installed?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642401#Comment_119642401

Yes and you should

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642134#Comment_119642134

ESB networks are responsible for Smart Meter installation, they cannot interfere between a provider and a customer by "managing" D/N tariffs in such a manner.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642497#Comment_119642497

I get that slave, but all meters are "owned" by ESB networks. They could simply say we're not supporting that beyond 2025 (or some other date), give suppliers plenty of time/notice to solve their problem(s). Happens all the time in other industries.

Now to be clear, I'm on a D/N meter. I want to remain on a D/N meter, but if the smart meter tariffs were better for solar, I suspect 95%+ of us would migrate en masse.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642512#Comment_119642512

Yes but they are not permitted to implement any changes that would change the tariff between an energy company and an end user. So they cannot remove a day night meter from an MCC02 customer (without their consent to break the supply contract).

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642512#Comment_119642512

Covered in Minister's questions, due to the electro magnetic fields created by the SM they can be permanently refused on those grounds.

I'm on D/N, I'll go deemed and going to wait a few years to see what FIT will eventually stabilise to, the market is upset at the moment so current FIT is not something to base a long term decision on