Russia - threadbanned users in OP

cnocbui · 17-09-2022 02:17PM

Just stop, it's completely pointless, only an Orc would be stupid enought to fall for your nonsense. France24 news has reporters live on the scene. They have reporters interviewing the prosecuters and investigators at the scene and are showing live coverage of some of the exhumations. They are now saying that almost all the bodies show signs of torture. You and your fellow Russians can not downplay this, no amount of desperate BS is going to make this story go away or succeed at covering up the truth.

Housefree · 17-09-2022 02:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630621#Comment_119630621

Maybe you should look up the definition. A mass grave is one grave with multiple bodies a burial site has multiple graves. Guess your no genius yourself!

And no need for your not so subtle threats

17-09-2022 02:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629645#Comment_119629645

Then there is hypervelocity projectiles fired from 155mm artillery guns at mach 7

https://youtu.be/-ghpRvJtNDI

https://youtu.be/PP9yxr9k53g

cnocbui · 17-09-2022 02:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630658#Comment_119630658

There is a mass grave, take your fingers out of your ears. I repeat, the civillians appear to have been burried individually, but they have found Ukrainian soldiers buried in a single pit, whose bodies show signs of torture. It's on the news.

Yurt2 · 17-09-2022 02:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630658#Comment_119630658

There is no threat. You're being told what will happen. This soft-peddle fascist war crime apologist nonsense will be attached to your name from here on in, and it will follow you until you chuck in the towel and come back with another account trying to float the same tripe. And then the same thing will happen.

The United Nations has defines "a criminal mass grave as a burial site containing three or more victims of execution"

Can't believe I have to post that.

The die is cast, and there will be no let-up on you.

Strazdas · 17-09-2022 03:05PM

From what we can see, nobody is suggesting that all 400 bodies discovered in Izyum were victims of war crimes. But there are indications that at least some of them may have there as a result of atrocities. Zelensky indicated in his TV address last night that 17 Ukrainian soldiers discovered at the site appear to have been executed.

Wolf359f · 17-09-2022 03:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630658#Comment_119630658

Doesn't make a difference how they were buried, it's how they died. Various reports of body's showing signs of torture, many appear to have a violent death.

If the Nazi's buried the bodies in individual graves with a mass etc... It makes no difference, it's still genocide.

If the Russians executed 400 civilians, that's a war crime. Even if other citizens tried bury them as respectful as possible, individual graves, crosses to mark the burial etc.... It's still a war crime by the Russians.

Giving the victims of a war crime a respectful burial doesn't not cancel the war crime.

Why are some people focusing on the term used (burial site, mass grave, mass of graves etc....) As some kind absolution of pretty obvious war crimes?

Yurt2 · 17-09-2022 03:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630814#Comment_119630814

"If the Nazi's buried the bodies in individual graves with a mass etc... It makes no difference, it's still genocide."

Izyum also still a mass grave, by every definition. The Office of the Commissioner of Human Rights have a report on this taking the reader through the definition of the term mass grave.

Under every competing definition, what we see in Izyum is a mass grave. There is no room for dispute - save perhaps with those that want to provide shelter for fascism and murder.

The is poster is getting clobbered by me because he's attempting a soft-peddle and to chummy-up war crimes. He won't be let off the hook.

thereitisgone · 17-09-2022 03:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630059#Comment_119630059

I believe the Ukrainians are planning for the winter war, but i have serious doubts the Russians are, in my mind i think they have a totally different view on everything. I know they have winter gear, but would not be surprised if they fight this winter in there summer uniforms.

They just cant seem to organize anything and wouldn't surprise me if having warm troops is bottom of there list of priorities

Life in Russia is cheap, there mindset is the same as Stallingrad, keep pouring troops forward no matter what, doesn't matter about the suffering, even if like now there's not much left in reserve

Going to be very interesting when the leaves are gone from the trees and all cover is gone, this is not like February, Ukraine's drone army is huge now

Fiery mutant · 17-09-2022 03:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630658#Comment_119630658

It's scummy that you would try to gloss over the mass murder of people, by trying to argue a technicality . I'd say the only reason that a lot of these graves are individual, is because they were killed over a long time frame. Probably after torture.

Fiery mutant · 17-09-2022 03:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630843#Comment_119630843

The winter gear Ukraine will get from the west will be of much better quality than what the Russians will have.

Yurt2 · 17-09-2022 03:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630843#Comment_119630843

There's a self-regard in Russia that they are tougher than those in the West. That they can suffer better than other nations.

This generation of Russian men are not the same as those from the 40s, and they are not fighting an existential war, but an elective one for a KGB creep that fantasises about hagiographic chapters about himself in Russian history books.

Russians psychologically folded in Afghanistan. It's widely known that generation of men came back haunted by the Mujahadeen and remain f*cked up to this day.

Russians are the same as everyone else, they will break in the winter if they are not fighting with proper provisions and are being pummelled in a pointless war. It's inevitable. The war has turned in the last few weeks and there is no going back.

Slava_Ukraine · 17-09-2022 03:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630856#Comment_119630856

I'd go a bit further and say that even in the highly unlikely event that these innocents were not tortured then executed - they are still innocents murdered in an illegal invasion of a sovereign country by uncultured butchers - a war crime no matter how these apologists and trolls frame it.

kevthegaff · 17-09-2022 03:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630869#Comment_119630869

I wouldn't blame them for being haunted. Some of the Russian soldiers were literally skinned alive. Very gruesome war especially when your not backed properly by your government or high command. Serious breakdown in russian hierarchy in the army not to mention food, clothes and weapons

briany · 17-09-2022 03:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630843#Comment_119630843

Life is not as cheap as it was in Russia 80 years ago, as far as I can see. It's probably cheaper to the Russians than it would be in western Europe or the United States, but if it were just a case of robotically sending people to the front and have that be accepted by the Russian people, there wouldn't be a need for any propaganda in Russia to try and hide the true cost of the war so far. Putin could just have gone on TV and said that Russia is at war with Ukraine, and its western backers by proxy. Therefore he needs two million soldiers to swamp Ukraine and expects every eligible man across Russia, from the lowliest peasant to the wealthiest oligarch to sign up tomorrow. Obviously, that's not what he did. You can blame bad intelligence for a time - that Putin didn't think he'd need more than was sent - but Russia is still trying to manage the image of the war to their public even now and is still holding off on full mobilisation even now. That implies to me that he's afraid of the consequences if the realities of the war are brought home to the Russian people.

And that's not to mention that it's a lot easier to gain public support for a war if it's a fight for your own existence vs it being a foreign adventure fought at the behest of your rulers, and the latter is exactly what this war is for Russia.

Yurt2 · 17-09-2022 03:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630892#Comment_119630892

Zinky Boys by Svetlana Alexievich is a good read.

It was patently absurd, the war was about 6 or 7 years old before Moscow acknowledged that it was even a war. By that stage about a million men had cycled through tours of duty in Afghanistan, with hundreds of thousands of them psychologically broken.

*The Zinky in the title is in reference to the zinc coffins dead troops were secretly sent back to the USSR in. Zinc because it was cheap and could be sealed effectively. And most amazingly, Russian bodies are being sent back from Ukraine in zinc coffins right this very day. A whole new generation of Zinky Boys.

Francie Barrett · 17-09-2022 03:40PM

https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1571123342366613505?t=7rrq1FMyIC6Clcq4KCsZTA&s=19

looks like Iranian drones are proving effective.

TheValeyard · 17-09-2022 03:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630931#Comment_119630931

He seems to be pretty balanced in his reporting.

Surprised though, I'd have thought Iranian drones to have been of low quality since they often copy and poorly reproduce it.

joseywhales · 17-09-2022 03:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630901#Comment_119630901

Well the big problem Russia has at it's core is demographics. It's not the USSR with seemingly endless resources of fighting age. They can't afford the losses.

thereitisgone · 17-09-2022 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630901#Comment_119630901

Life is cheap if it comes from the eastern provinces of Russia and thats where the majority are coming from right now

I agree with you when its Moscovites and men from St Petersburg its different, but i dont think we will see many from those areas

They have no appetite for this war, they are the ones travelling to Europe for holidays

In there view this is not there war to fight and they wont

Jinglejangle69 · 17-09-2022 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630931#Comment_119630931

As I said they would here the other day but was told I was talking nonsense.

Gatling · 17-09-2022 03:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630931#Comment_119630931

They knocked out 4 guns In a month,

Massive successs .

blackwave · 17-09-2022 04:08PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xgfsm1/brazenly_and_on_camera_the_russians_kidnap/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Clip of russia taking kids from Ukraine back to Russia. They don't even try to hide it.

Fiery mutant · 17-09-2022 04:09PM

I think I read somewhere that the US said if Iran provided those drones, It would change their view on what they would be willing to provide ukraine.

Wonder if that is still the case.

TheValeyard · 17-09-2022 04:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630989#Comment_119630989

That's still better than I thought they could do. Lol.

Gatling · 17-09-2022 04:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630986#Comment_119630986

So taking out 4 pieces of equipment is a massive successs after 4 weeks, mean while Russia donated hundreds of pieces of equipment to Ukraine.

Who's having the success and who isn't

Fiery mutant · 17-09-2022 04:16PM

https://twitter.com/war_noir/status/1571126350655922177?t=wXf1VE0f9GE3xUpA4u7r5A&s=19

interesting is right.

Wonder what else we might find as time goes on.

briany · 17-09-2022 04:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630985#Comment_119630985

I don't think the average Muscovite is travelling to Europe for holidays much anymore and it's been a direct consequence of the war, especially for city dwellers of European Russia, that the country has been cut off in some ways from direct interaction with the West. However, supposing that young urban Russians can tolerate that situation long term, the supply of ignorant young men from rural settlements in the far east of Russia is not inexhaustible. 75 percent of Russia's population lives west of the Urals and 75 percent of their population also lives in cities or towns. If Putin mobilises, he's going to have to draw more from places and people which aren't so easily kept in the dark about what's really going on and places and people where joining the army isn't their sole promise of a better life. People to whom life isn't quite as cheap, and that'll be problematic for Putin.

That's if it even gets to that point. There is already notable public dissent against the war within Russia. Because Russia is a place where it pays to train both in mortuary science and double glazing, it leads me to believe that the true public opinion of the war in Russia is significantly more downcast than official polls would say and it will come to a point where the welling resentment against Putin will lead to his downfall. I think Putin knows that, deep down, that he cannot just prosecute this war as long as he wants.

Vicxas · 17-09-2022 04:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119631043#Comment_119631043

What are the implications of this? Surely China isnt forbidden from selling arms to Russia?

mcsean2163 · 17-09-2022 04:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119630304#Comment_119630304

Back in March they had an opportunity but currently their stated goal is to retake Crimea.

If they dialed it down a notch and suggested the following:

Reinstate the Minsk line
Agree to not attempt to join NATO for ten years.

Ask European leaders like Macron, Draghi and even Michael Martin to put those terms to Putin. It would likely be very hard to get such an agreement but with global famine and nuclear holocaust on the horizon maybe it wouldn't be the worst idea to change tack.

What could Russia do?

Reinstate the Minsk line (major withdrawal to where things were before the war)
Agree security guarantee for 10 years if NATO not pursued.

Both would require lots of European diplomacy to get such a deal through. I can't imagine the USA helping in any way with the democrats in charge as they really really hate Russia (before anyone attacks me I generally prefer the democrats except for their aggressive anti Russian foreign policy which seems to cause big problems like Ukraine, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria, etc.)

That's where I see the opportunity to end the war.

Maybe the Russian's could make a small concession on the Minsk line to appease Ukraine. Crimea which was gifted to Ukraine by USSR is predominantly ethnic Russian so not seeing the Russian's give that away. There are various concerns with the 2014 Maiden Revolution which various commentators have raised. It would be nice to see Russia getting smaller. Maybe Ukraine/ Russia could agree to instantiating a buffer state in East Ukraine and Crimea.

I don't think Russia or Ukraine would be happy be at least the war would end and famine in the global south be prevented and nuclear holocaust averted.

For anyone thinking the nuclear threat is a joke.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1072256/doomsday-clock-development/#:~:text=Doomsday%20Clock%3A%20minutes%20to%20midnight%20each%20year%201947%2D2022&text=As%20of%202022%2C%20the%20Doomsday,the%20end%20of%20human%20civilization.

https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/timeline/

We've never been closer to doomsday according to the scientist running the clock. I wonder where we'll be this year following the conflict. It's not funny.

You can go around saying Russian's are inhuman orcs but they are not, they're genetically human. It's in the interest of humanity to end this stupid conflict ASAP without nuclear weapons.

That's just how I see it, I may be wrong. If you think I'm wrong, fine, happy to discuss but no need to attack me personally, e.g. calling me a schizophrenic weirdo, is not constructive imho.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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