Harry and Meghan - OP updated with Threadbanned Users 4/5/21

I think you need to get past your prejudices on wokeness.

I've always given wokeness the respect it deserves. I only judge it when it opens its mouth.

Very interesting interview with Harry. Not sure that I agree with everything he says, and of course, he is coming from his POV, but the man has deep trauma about what happened to his mother and has an intense fear about it happening again.

One can argue about the rationale of that POV, he believes that he raised these concerns and was ignored. His family knew and seemingly did nothing to help him. Now, they could have tried to help, and sometimes nothing you do is ever enough, but I don't think Harry simply walked out. He feels let down by his family, he feels powerless to stop the repeat of what happened to his mother.

It is odd though that he is very obviously aware of racism towards any non-white in relation to the royal family, and yet he married Megan. I know that you don't choose who you fall in love with, but surely they considered what was likely to happen? Maybe they hoped that they could change it?

The line about his Dad saying that it had happened to him so it would happen to them, although I get where Charles is coming from, I also see how deflating that must be for his son to hear that the Dad just thinks he should accept it.

You think it's odd that someone married who they love, because the royal family, and society is racist?

Your statement is what's odd.

Why would he abdicate?

Also didn't his father not marry the woman he loved (at first), why didn't he abdicate? because that turned out well didn't it?

I'm not sure you understand what 'snowflake' means. Snowflakes are the type to say that hearing something they don't agree with makes them 'unsafe' or is 'violence' or a 'micro-aggression'. They are called snowflakes because they tend to appeal to, or demand that, authorities change the system to better suit their inner neurotic inadequacies. Rather than using opinions and actions inconsistent with their identity as an opportunity to grow and become more resilient, they retreat further into their own egotistical bubble where the world should change to make them more comfortable.

I think the whole suggestion of the press and public being against Meghan and Harry is gaslighting. Selecting two articles and extrapolating this as being representative of the media in general is selective bias and manipulation. The majority of coverage was actually overwhelmingly positive. The UK public generally loved Harry and his antics actually endeared him to the public. His brother, up to his own antics, needed to mature much earlier. I think Harry took a lot of flak to defend his brother during their impressionable years. Having followed this since they were dating then my feeling was that there was always a sense of people seeking to give them the benefit of the reasonable doubt.

She's not British! Beware the ides of Wallis! Well she makes Harry happy and it's good to see him settle down.

She is a grifting social climber? She is American and new to this, they are in love give them a bloody chance.

Only her mother was at the funeral? So she fell out with her family. So what. Who doesn't have family problems after all?

She is called Duchess Difficult? She is American and there is obviously a working culture clash.

Shenanigans with the birth of Archie? She wants to do it differently, leave her alone ffs.

No one asked if she is ok? She is pregnant and emotional, she isn't supported, the royals are notoriously cold.

They are stepping down? I support it, imagine how awful that life of service is and it's clearly not for everyone.

She is accused of bullying staff? It's a smear campaign, they tried to destroy poor Diana as well.

Even with the Oprah interview the scales wouldn't fall from some peoples eyes.

She was a victim of racism? If she feels that way then it happened, she's entitled to feel that way.

A royal was racist? Of course she won't name names, they'll get sued and they've been cut off.

She didn't get help when suicidal? It's the royals, they are cold hearted bastards after all so of course they wouldn't help.

etc.

Then when the litany of logical fallacies and the easily debunked lying is conducted then the excusing them became quite comical and so supporters turned towards accusations i.e. if you don't believe them then you're a racist, you support the racist monarchy, you're jealous, you're a hater etc.

The go to reaction when criticising H & M is to point towards What about Andrew?. It's notable that those dastardly tabloids were actually the ones who exposed his links to Epstein and Maxwell, they were the ones who went in with studs showing. Any intermittent developments in his public and reputational demise received widespread coverage and categorical public condemnation. His attempt at explaining was via an interview in which Emily Maitlis skewered him and his comical excuses. A world away from Oprah allowing your "truth" to emerge without challenge. The major difference is that Andrew does not employ a PR machine to rehabilitate his image. There are no puff pieces about him giving gift cards to staff or buying coffee in an attempt to make him out to be something he isn't. There are no "sweet nod" type articles flooding peoples feeds. He also had the tact to lie low and has never attacked the monarchy or tried to destabilise it. That's not excusing him but simply pointing out that when you serve up nothing then there can be no return. There are only so many variations of condemning him and that gets repetitive. With the Sussexes there is always intermittent developments, there is always material with which the tabloids will latch onto in order to generate content. They faciliate the pile on but a factor in that piling on is that they did try and destabilise the monarchy. Accusing a senior royal (likely Charles or William) of being racist was likely an attempt at initiating a snowball effect i.e. the system and a head of state were racist to a biracial member of the family and one by one the commonwealth countries would take action in retaliation. None of that happened because "recollections may vary" was an acceptable response. In the end I just think that reputationally the genie is out of the bottle for the Sussexes and getting it back in may well be impossible. It would be brilliant if the tabloids simply stopped covering them period. There is nothing interesting there and clearly it's all done because it drives clicks which means advertising money. I won't even use the Daily Mail site anyway because it's such a head melt from a usability design point of view.

nobody has said she is as pure as the driven snow as far as i am aware, but simply we know that if a once full on nazi sympathising, still dog whistling racist publication who has no credibility or moral high ground to criticise anyone, dislikes and moralises over someone, chances are that someone isn't actually anywhere near being as bad as claimed at all.

Maybe it's time to ask the people around you if they see people crying over what woke people say. It's not normal to think these are real people.

I get you, if the Daily Mail don't like 'em, that's a great endorsement of their virtue.

i know, but it''s not proof in fairness.

realistically what likely happened is the aids and staff wanted meghan to abide by the traditions, she didn't want to do that because that is her right, they took that as bullying as there is a culture clash between americans and english and sometimes they can take each other up wrong.

yeah, she probably is a bit of a deva but american zelebrities generally seem to be, but bullying is a very serious allegation and the fact she hasn't sued doesn't mean it took place.

She pretty much confirmed the letter was both real and truthful, she said she was 'saddened at this attack on her character', there was no denial or claim that the details were false.

If your charitable reading of the situation is correct, she's then lying about no one telling her what the traditions and expectations of the role were. Or they were telling her, that didn't suit her new self-importance, and she freaked out on them. There's being a difficult 'boss' and there's being hounded out of your job.

Two articles? How about 20?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal

we don't actually know that anyone was hounded out of their job, someone claimed it happened but that is not proof.

the hangers on in the institution were always going to see anyone leaving it because of any little slight meghan may have said or done as them being hounded out.

Abdicate, she would have been on the next bus to LA, her ambitions of being as rich as the Khardashians blown, she would then have to get a decent lawyer and get rich the old-fashioned way, divorce, 2 kids and keep her in the custom she was getting used to.