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GAA need to step up

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow




  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    There are huge differences between the GAA and OO. First and foremost, the GAA is primarily about sport and I think most people can recognise that, games are played all the time, there is an entire forum dedicated to the GAA on here, its on TV all the time and discussed about etc, etc. It is just like any other sport in most respects, can you say the same for the OO? For sure the GAA has a political side, but thing is I would Imagine the majority of those who are involved in the GAA would not even be aware of the issue you are fixated on or I doubt they would even care. Ask any random person who comes to Ireland what Gaelic games are about and the answer will clearly be sport. Ask some random person what OO is about and it is a lot less clear, i doubt even most people in Ireland know what OO is about other than 12th July marching. So there are huge differences there.

    I have never ever heard the 32 County thing ever mentioned or discussed in any shape of form within the GAA other than by those attacking the GAA. It is definitely not a requirement I have seen asked of anyone, though it could be buried somewhere in membership forms, a bit like those terms and conditions most people skip over, but i have never seen anyone excluded because of it. I think if anyone did try and enforce it, they would be likely told where to go.

    And on the difference regards being exclusionary. Maybe lets put it like, the Tory party says you cannot join unless you support Liz Truss or the alternate Lis Truss is our new leader so do you want to join? Now maybe you hate Liz Truss so its irrelevant, but you still at least have the choice in one of those options.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Posters who compare the GAA and OO need to have a good look at themselves, like those who compare an inlclusive event like St Patricks day parade to that of the bigoted 12th parades. I don't know about others but when I think of the OO, the closest org is the KKK.

    Some people will whinge about anyhing Irish



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    As always. It was republicans who introduced 12th etc into this thread as whataboutery.

    there are huge differences and huge similarities in the two organisations.

    your sanitizer views of stuff like st pats day, feile, etc are incredible.

    likewise you comparison of OO and kkk. There are lots of people in my community who are the mirror image of you. They think that the GAA is the Ira at play. I certainly do not agree with that so I am not your mirror image and struggle to get inside your head as to why you compare OO and kkk.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tbf,the oo stated raision detre is literally protestant asendency.......it runs,near parallel to the kkk and it's white supremacy


    It's an reasonable comparison



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I wouldn't compare OO parades to the 17th March, but when you compare OO parades to events like the Bobby Storey funeral or the SF Easter commemoration, it can be difficult to tell the difference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    Except Downcow is comparing the OO to the GAA. The bone of contention being they are apparently being excluded because of a part of the GAA constitution that they do not agree with. Well technically they can also not participate in rugby, hockey, cycling, boxing, gymnastics etc, etc because they are if I am not mistaken, All Ireland 32 County Sports organisations and Downcow does not recognise a 32 County Ireland, so if Downcow is being consistent here, these sports are also exclusionary because they do not match their beliefs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Nonsense.

    I personally would not represent a 32 county international team (if I was so gifted) but a number of unionists do and I support their right to do so

    i could though join a rugby club and yet be opposed to promoting a 32 county national identity. That’s the difference



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I wasn’t the one brought the OO whataboutery into this thread. So how about we agree not to mention the OO again



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    And you responded to the whataboutery on more than one occasion claiming the OO and GAA were very similar, now you just want to drop it like you never made those comparisons.

    You are desperately trying to paint the GAA as some incredibly sectarian organisation when it is far from being that. Maybe it is more the case in the North, but I would argue that is more a reflection on NI society than on the GAA.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    St Patrick Day in most places is a disgrace, loads of drunk people fighting etc. In Dublin you if you go in to watch the parade you try to get out as soon as possible before the mayhem starts. In the middle of the day you have people openly fighting with each other because they have so much alcohol onboard from first thing in the morning

    Yes some of the parades in the North have issues but the majority pass off with no issues and are not the drunken mess that St Patrick Day is.

    Have you ever gone to a parade in the North or just basing your entire opinion on what you seen on TV?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Hardly surprising I responded to the whataboutery. Would you respond if someone described a part of your culture as kkk. I wouldn’t dare make such a claim.

    for clarity. I am saying the GAA is sectarian. That does not mean everyone in it is very sectarian. Most people who have studied conflict would suggest that almost everyone in ni is on a sectarian continuum, ranging eg from choosing which pub to go to or which cultural event to attend or avoid, right through to murdering people because of their religion at the other extreme. The GAA contains all of those, but the key is that the organisation is not addressing any sectarian attitudes within and indeed remarkably allows clubs to celebrate those who have acted in the most extreme sectarian manner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I know that post is in reply to votecounts but it reminded me of my only experience of st Patrick’s parade which I thought might make you guys smile but also give you a sense of how nationalist parades are perceived by some.

    over 20 years ago I led an exclusively nationalist youth group who were very prominent in the district. The Council asked us if we would dress up and give out sweets as part of the local st Patrick’s parade. I dreaded it but wanted to support the young people with my presence. We turned up on the morning to select our fancy dress. I felt sick about being seen parading at such an event so when I saw a costume with full face cover it was a dream selection for me. Of course the fact it was St Patrick himself seemed irrelevant to me.

    turned out we were at the front of the parade and I quickly realised I was the centre of attention 😳. Things to a worring turn when during the parade is was interviewed by 3 different media bbc, utv and radio. I was filled with dread at the thought of my community hearing me interviewed at the head of this nationalist parade. I rushed back to the office and phoned the bbc etc pleading that they would not use the interviews with me. Needless to say one of them did and I received numerous text messages and was often referred to as Patrick for some time afterwards🙂. Nb none of the texts were sinister - purely humorous.

    maybe if you want to empathise, swap my situation with you doing King Billy at the front of an orange parade



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Funny story :-)

    I posted here before and the my experience of the orange order parades was nothing like what’s fired up on TV

    Also St Patrick day is nothing but a disgrace for the majority of parades.

    Seemingly it’s a day now to see how drunk you can get , anyway off topic, just wanted to point that out.

    Post edited by brokenangel on


  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭DonegalBay


    You want to see the end of the GAA commemorating IRA members, a very minor part of the GAA, fine. If it did happen it would have negligble impact on the GAA.

    But if Nationalists were to demand the same from Unionists, that they stop celebrating an event that led directly to the persecution of Catholics for over 100 years and that they find offensive, what would Unionists have to say?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This is where you are either misunderstanding or maliciously spinning.

    I am not calling on nationalists to stop celebrating any event or person. I am calling on a sporting body, that claims it is open to all, to stop celebrating people who murdered many hundreds of innocent civilians. I would ask any body which claims to be open to all to never celebrate anyone who has murdered neighbours within living memory. No exceptions and no contradictions.

    is that clear enough for you.

    if sf, OO, etc want to honour people who have killed their neighbours then that’s up to them, but don’t be treating us with contempt and claiming to represent all



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I would ask any body who claims to be open to all to never celebrate anyone who has murdered neighbours within living memory. No exceptions and no contradictions.

    Well....there's your precious United Kingdom out the window. You lot regularly celebrate murderers well within living memory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Now we have someone comparing a supposedly inclusive sport with a colonising nation. Now we are in the realms of the ridiculous, though it does demonstrate that some of you realise that the GAA has a problem, when you can’t find another sport to compare it to as a fig leaf.

    And I don’t know any nation that doesn’t celebrate it past battles.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I'm just asking whether you actually hold to your own standards, Downcow.

    I would ask any body who claims to be open to all to never celebrate anyone who has murdered neighbours within living memory. No exceptions and no contradictions.

    Your quote doesn't mention sports, I'm just asking whether you're acknowledging that by your own standards, the United Kingdom isn't open to all? Given that you've said no exceptions and no contradictions, I just wanted to see if you REALLY held to, 'no exceptions, no contradictions', or if you'd managed to mentally compartmentalise enough to not even realise what you really meant was, 'themmuns can't claim to be open etc, but we're grand to because our murderers were state sponsored'.

    See I'm actually fine with your stance about not celebrating murdering neighbours, I'd be totally fine if there was never a single Provo memorial again. You're clearly not.

    Ironic that you started your originally quoted rant around the same time that thousands from your community and over forty of your bands were out for the annual Brian Robinson memorial parade yet I don't see your outraged posts about that anywhere?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Yes I completely condemn the brian Robinson parade. A terrorist guilty of sectarian murder. If a sport I was involved in name ad ground or competition in his honour, I would be very vocal in my condemnation.

    I am a norther ireland supporter and if Windsor park was renamed after brian Robinson then I would never darken its door again.

    is that clear enough. Could you say the same about grounds named after Ira ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    If only I could compare Windsor Park to a stadium named after a group responsible for murder across the world, I'd really have you Downcow....not like the British Crown has been responsible for anything like that at all.

    For the record, I have not and will never attend a single event memorialising the Provos or any other Republican paramilitary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Can you put the full quote which is

    "strengthening the national identity in a 32 county Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.


    Is sports/pastimes that strengths the English or Scottish identity at odds with unionism or is it just things that strengthen the Irish identity?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    "strengthening the national identity in a 32 county Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

    This really should be changed at this point. Not because it's sectarian, but because GAA is played so much worldwide now, and used by Irish worldwide to preserve their national identity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am not quite sure what you are saying here? Are you comparing Windsor park with GAA grounds named after terrorists?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Thanks for your help in clarifying any confusion here.

    Whilst very strange I would not condemn a sport in England if it decided to work towards strengthening English identity. I would though distance my self from such a nationalistic activity in sport. That said, if a sport based on the gb island stated that it’s aim was to support an English national identity on the entire island, I would roundly condemn it as arrogant, supremacist and exclusive (I guess you would as well). This is exactly what the GAA are doing on this island but you won’t condemn it as arrogant, supremacist and exclusive. Interesting



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Interesting point. Which national identity do you think the GAA should strengthen in the 42 county England?

    is the GAA going to colonise the world?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    The Irish identity, among expats and 2nd/3rd/4th generation Irish. Same as it helps people like that in Europe, middle east, america. GAA is already played around the world Downcow. I think they should change the goal as the GAA is much bigger now than just the island of Ireland. It seems to me that you actually know very little about the GAA outside of the bubble that is Northern Ireland.

    As to the question, of course not. Sports organisations don't colonise the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I didn’t take GAA as a subject at school but I am very aware GAA is played in various places around the world. I was just surprised you seemed to be suggesting that GAA should expand its desire to strengthen national identity beyond roi and ni to other areas of the world. But I guess you know that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    I'm saying that there have been an awful lot more deaths in the name of the British crown than were ever carried out by the Provos, Downcow.

    That they were a legitimate force makes the children they killed worse, not better.

    I understand how there can be some debate about whether a stadium is so named because of that person's involvement in the club versus their politics (or in the case of Windsor Park, where it is located rather than a specific tribute to the royals), but given how conflicted we continue to be in NI, and how unlikely we are to reconcile our differing views on our history any time soon, in an ideal world I wouldn't have any stadium or event named after any political figures.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I guess you must have been on google and discovered just how inaccurate your post was. Windsor was named before the royals took on that name. Hardly our fault if his majesty decided to call himself after our beloved stadium 😂

    if Gerry Adam’s changed his name to Gerry aviva then I wouldn’t expect the stadium to change its name



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