GAA need to step up

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657125#Comment_119657125

Jesus f*cking Christ, Downcow....., 'tricked' by a Celtic fan? Some bloke said, 'up the Celts' and he called him a Fenian b*stard. Where's the trick? It's pathetic, and bigging up the IFA's action on not playing him for a few games when he's already injured and expecting him to never play again is laughable. He'll be back after this weeks fixtures when he isn't carrying a back injury. The fact that the IFA made an official statement stating that it was a set up tells us all we need to know about your squad.

I know you're predisposed to blame the Paddies for everything, but take it from someone who knows his family well; this wasn't an out of character moment for Lafferty. The only surprise is that it has taken this long for there to be a public incident, he's well known in Fermanagh for these sort of outbursts with nary a Celtic fan present.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657712#Comment_119657712

What exactly did he say, do you know?

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657730#Comment_119657730

Just referred to the fella and those he was with as, 'Fenian B*stards'.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657743#Comment_119657743

Ty

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657712#Comment_119657712

I categorically said ifa were correct to drop him and that I felt he should not play again for ni. And you question my attitude. What have you done to challenge you sports stars sectarianism. I don’t remember any clear statements like mine. Why don’t you start with telling us that the Tyrone players who called shouted ira at a group of young girls should get exactly the same treatment as I recommended for lafferty

…and then you bring his family into it and suggest they are all the same. Disgraceful. I can think of many republican cases where if I dared to do what you have just done ie identify behaviour of family members to prove my point, my feet wouldn’t touch the ground, and you would ensure they didn’t

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119657730#Comment_119657730

He called these guys a bunch of fenian bastards. He has been dropped by ni and is being investigated.

a Celtic fan in a night club pretended to be an admirer, took a selfie in which he said ‘up the celts’

kyle lafferty was completely wrong to react in the way he did.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658268#Comment_119658268

Let me be clearer, I'm not making a, 'sins of the father' type comment. The mention of personally knowing his family was purely to highlight that it was not a hearsay type of comment, that I have actual direct knowledge and experience with Kyle going back to before you'd ever heard of him unless you're an avid follower of Ballinamallard youth football.

My comment is very specifically about him and only him, I'm saying that he personally has form for this going back to when he still lived in Fermanagh. I'll make it even clearer, I specifically know plenty of Kyle's family who do not have form for this.

I'm challenging your attitude not because of the afterthought type condemnation you provided, but rather for the attempt to downplay it in the same sentence by qualifying your condemnation with a poor justification; that he was, 'tricked' into a sectarian outburst.

You've categorically said the IFA were right to drop him, while conveniently ignoring that he wasn't going to play this week due to a back injury anyway. Your statement that he should never again play for NI.....well we both know how likely that is. I'm fully expecting to see him kitted within the next few NI fixtures post these two games, even though I was under the impression Baraclough was running a bit hot and cold with him recently anyway.

Feel free to come back and quote me on this should anything come from NI HQ beyond attempts to downplay it similar to yours. Last I read, Baraclough was referring to it as a set up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658279#Comment_119658279

Ah yes, all Celtic fans are members of the Green Brigade now. Further attempts to upsell the other side to downplay Lafferty's behaviour, with a half arsed, 'but he was wrong too' at the end.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658284#Comment_119658284

Just strange to reference his family but I’m glad you clarified,

you are being a bit disingenuous saying he was injured. It’s my understanding that he was withdrawn from the squad because of the sectarian comment.

I am sure you are aware we now have a second player withdrawn because he said up the ra on video. All ni fans I know, and what I see on social media, there is massive support for him and fans just want peoples social lives and politics kept out of it.

whatever they do they should treat both the same going forward.

As for Celtic. A large proportion of their fans have behaved disgracefully over the last week in mocking a 96 year-old woman’s death. Sad stuff

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660607#Comment_119660607

I do see reading back that the family reference wasn't clear and could've easily been misread as you did.

I'm entirely unaware of the second player, do you have a link with info? If he was withdrawn for chanting, 'up the RA', I find it quite absurd that you're boasting about the support he has received from the fanbase. Given our society's problems, being censured for calling people, 'Fenian b*stards' or for shouting, 'up the RA' isn't just a simple case of bringing people's politics or personal lives into things. Whatever the sport, these figures in NI are in a position of influence and this sort of behaviour absolutely shouldn't just be swept under the carpet.

I'll happily listen to context - e.g. I don't think the Limerick team singing Sean South (most of them without a clue of context beyond, 'and the leader was a Limerick man') is the same as someone shouting, 'up the RA', or calling someone a, 'Fenian b*stard'. I'd be of the same opinion if someone from my local GAA club back home was caught calling someone a 'Hun B*stard'.

As for Celtic, suggesting that a LARGE proportion of their fans are responsible for that would be akin to me calling out some of the sectarianism I heard in Windsor Park as representative of a large number of NI fans. I fully agree that it was totally unacceptable. I'm not a Royalist, and don't hold your former Queen in the highest of regards as you might, but I recognise that ultimately someone has died so I have remained quiet on the topic out of respect for those who see it differently.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119661832#Comment_119661832

Thanks for the respectful post.

I completely accept your explanation re family.

here is link to the player withdrawn one hour before game for ‘up the ra’ https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63022624.amp

neither incident is acceptable or pleasant Fans have came out to support Conor because it is historic and we all grew up in ni and know how easy it is to get in this situation

it is interesting that you are unaware of the ‘up the ra’ incident. Does that tell you anything about the one-sided story you are fed about our team and fans

re Celtic I stand over that I think it was a large amount of their fans. I was at the NI game yesterday and there was the same very tiny number of ‘fans’ who sing ‘no surrender’ in the silent bit of GSTK. I promise you it is tiny and hated by most. It is the only way they can do it now because they have long been defeated if they try anything at any other point then the massive majority drown them out - they don’t even try for years. As for Celtic the photos and videos suggest it is very widespread. But I will accept it may not be a majority and I guess there are fans hate it.

are you suggesting that anyone caught on video singing Lizzie in a box should be sanctioned?

it is honestly shocking for unionists in the north to watch this spread across Ireland. In the last days we have seen hundreds of young people sing it at the ploughing championships and thousands sing it in the 3 arena in Dublin. This is a 96 year old woman who most unionists see in the same light as their granny. It’s a nice invitation to a United ireland.

do you believe that the Tyrone senior mens county team who were filmed shouting up the ra to young girls should have received lifetime bans?

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662355#Comment_119662355

It is interesting that you suspect that I'm aware of the Lafferty incident because I'm fed a one sided story.....and then proceed to link to a BBC article. Hardly being buried by the media! I'm aware of the Lafferty incident because I'm aware of Lafferty himself. The McMenamin story is quite distinctly different from the Lafferty one given that historic nature of things. I always find the types who go digging years back into people's social media for a, 'gotcha' quite strange (felt the same about Doug Beattie, though the volume of distasteful content there was still concerning).

I 100% think that singing 'Lizzy in a Box' is distasteful and insensitive, though not on the same level as the likes of the Orange Hall incident around Michaela McAreavey. You should also consider that while Unionists may see her as akin to a granny, many of us of an Irish persuasion have a very different view of her that is equally valid to yours. That doesn't justify the singing, but nor should you take offense that not everyone is fawning over her death the same way your community are.

As for whether they should be sanctioned? It depends on the circumstances. I don't really see what sanctions we could expect to see enforced on young folk at the Ploughing Championships or at a gig.

Do I think the Tyrone players should've received lifetime bans? Absolutely not. Nor do I think Lafferty should. In Lafferty's case I think a hefty fine from his club would be most appropriate. Given that GAA is an amateur sport, obviously the same can't occur for the Tyrone players. I don't think blanket action on the team is appropriate either. Individuals confirmed to actually be involved should certainly face some sort of sanctions.

Choochtown

I'm not aware of any incident where Tyrone players were "shouting up the ra to young girls"

Maybe you could provide a link?

There was a video in 2019 that became public where the Tyrone players were singing a song on the bus. The song was not heard outside the bus by any "young girls" or anyone else. (According to none other than Arlene Foster who was the local MLA at the time). Is that the incident to which you refer?

Below is a link to the lyrics and history of the song.

Whilst I fully accept that the "IRA" lyric would be offensive to many, here's a genuine question ...

Away from the context of the tribalism in the North, and viewed as a historical song, is it really offensive to Unionists? If so, why?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_Out,_Ye_Black_and_Tans

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663097#Comment_119663097

Everything is offensive to Unionists

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662355#Comment_119662355

People singing "lizzie in a box" at the ploughing championships or at the 3 arena are from the north i would imagine. You would be much more likely to hear that sung from a person from the north than south. So i dont know why this would be seen as off putting to a UI. Unionists live within thei NI jurisdiction who sing this. Why would merging with people from south into a UI who dont sing this be a problem

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662932#Comment_119662932

I think we live on different planets.

3-4 people who had been drinking in a private hall sing a disgusting song about a deceased women who the nationalist community respect highly. They are disciplined, lose their jobs, etc.

thousands upon thousands of people at public events sing a disgusting song about a deceased women who the unionist community respect highly. Seems it’s no big deal in your eyes.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663097#Comment_119663097

Apologies. You are correct. They said nothing about the ra. They just called the young girls ‘**** huns’. I take it all back. That was acceptable behaviour by a county senior GAA team.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663542#Comment_119663542

I am not sure you are correct. I think nationalists in the north may have been more aware of the impact on their neighbours and refrained. Of course there were a minority of republican bigots that participated.

I am not aware of any singing in the north at major public events yet we have videos from a whole series of public gatherings in the south. Shame

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663951#Comment_119663951

'3 or 4' my ar*e Downcow. The fact that people were singing along also suggests that it was hardly the first time it was sang.

But let's not get bogged down on that. A bunch of people sing a directly offensive song celebrating the death of a woman who was murdered, versus a bunch of people singing a song that essentially notes that a very privileged woman who lived a very long life has passed away from natural causes.

Let's just put both lyrics down and you tell me if they're comparable.

'Lizzys in a box, in a box, Lizzys in a box...na na na na na na na na'

Versus

"She went to her room to get a wee treat

Something **** strangers she did meet

They hammered and they hammered and they beat her about John McArevey never gave her a shout.

Round and round and up and down

Through the streets of Ballygawley town"

Both are pretty repulsive, but if you think they're equally offensive, well I really have no words for you.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664343#Comment_119664343

It is happening at big events in the south because people from all over Ireland including the north come to them. You dont hear it being it being sung down your local pub in the south . We have a video from your county Down where it is being sung in a local pub

Do you know 60k tickets alone were sold in tyrone to see Garth Brooks gigs in dublin last week. I know who were most likely to be singing lizzy is in a box.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663973#Comment_119663973

Do you think it's responsible and acceptable behaviour to make up a story that Tyrone footballers shouted "up the ra' to young girls?

Choochtown

... and here's another false accusation

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dungannon-councillor-who-wrongly-claimed-gaelic-football-tournament-was-linked-to-ira-hunger-striker-will-not-apologise-to-the-gaa-42014199.html

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119663973#Comment_119663973

No comment on the Black and Tans song?

I was hoping that your answer might help me understand your opinions on such songs and how they might be interpreted and crucially how they offend some of my fellow countrymen.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664477#Comment_119664477

That’s is some spin. I did not equate the words of the songs. In fact I had no clue of the words of the song about michaela until you typed them verbatim Disgusting.

now the facts. I have looked at the video again. You can see upwards of fifty people socialising. I can only see two singing. It is very clear from the reaction of the others that they have never heard it before. A small number have a disgusting affirmative applause for this new song. The vast majority are bemused and do not react.

my point was that in one disgusting case a few people numbered in single figures sing a song and it understandably is condemned by all right thinking people accept the political spectrum. I’m the other cases, thousands upon thousands of people across multiple events sing a song and republicans are fairly silent in their condemnation. And now you are also suggesting one situation is not quite as bad as the other.

…..and credit where credit is due. I see no examples broadcast where GAA events have been celebrating the death of our beloved queen

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664873#Comment_119664873

You know I wasn’t making up a story. I got the words wrong and in so doing was be kind to them. I imagine you would agree that **** the huns is even more offensive than up the ra in the context. As it was blatantly sectarian and directed at the girls.

thanks for the helpful correction

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664904#Comment_119664904

The words in these tribal songs are somewhat irrelevant. eg the words of the Sash are very benign but the sound of it being sung seems to send republicans in a frenzy.

come out you Black and Tans is though not as benign, as the sash is about celebrating our own culture and identity. The B&T mocks the death of 1,000s of our country folk in ww1 and it says the republican children will celebrate the ‘cutting down’ of many more. Nasty stuff. But as I say the words are not really the issue I believe - unless of course you would welcome the singing of the Sash at mixed public events

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119661832#Comment_119661832

Thankfully the IFA appear to have listened to the fans and Conor Macmenanen is in Greece ready to be considered to play. Well done to the fans and again the vast majority will ensure he is welcomed back no matter about his ‘up the ra’ indiscretion

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665211#Comment_119665211

I've no problem with the Sash (or Irish Molly O as it was originally called) being played or sung anywhere. Why would I?

The problem with it, I think, is that it is rarely (if ever) performed by anyone other than sectarian bigots.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665199#Comment_119665199

Some spin indeed, Downcow.

https://twitter.com/Mully1892/status/1532469239587692544?t=HeMLq-0Y_EcXHcMv-a0F8Q&s=19

I'll just share the video here. How you can listen and honestly believe only TWO people are singing there, well I have no idea. Another large group applauding and thumping on tables and even more grinning and laughing to it.

Also, Republicans have been far from silent in their condemnation. The first thing I said about it was that it was distasteful and insensitive. It should be called out as such. It still isn't in the same league as what was sang in that Orange Hall. If a song about your Queen contained similar bile, I'd call it out just as strongly.

One is a public figure, who died at a great age from natural causes after a long and privileged life, in who's name a lot of innocent people were killed. She's an understandably polarising public figure and some people were singing a song essentially celebrating that she is dead. Similar things happened across the UK when Margaret Thatcher died for example. It is entirely distasteful and inappropriate but isn't in the same league at all as a song mocking and celebrating the murder of a young teacher for no reason other than she was a Catholic and her father was involved with the GAA.

blanch152

When a thread like this descends into your sectarians are worse than my sectarians, you realise how far away any sense of real change is.

DellyBelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665572#Comment_119665572

Think a poll should be created to see which sides sectarianism is worse ...it's actually a tough one to call