GAA need to step up

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665572#Comment_119665572

Your usual drive-by snide contribution of barely any substance is welcome, Blanch. Maybe you'll tell us again how an independent NI that no one wants is the only solution?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665712#Comment_119665712

Never said that an independent NI is the only solution. A federated island with autonomy for the existing Northern Ireland would appeal to the third minority.

Given the tedious bickering over whose sectarians are worse, my contribution may well have been of the most substance. Hopefuly it ends, and we acknowledge that there are two sides as bad as each other at times, and that they take turns showing their community in an awful light.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665881#Comment_119665881

Would it appeal to the third minority? I've asked repeatedly and you've never provided evidence that there is support for your solution in any form. I'll give you the opportunity again and I'll happily acknowledge how wrong I am if you can provide evidence of actual ground level support of any substantial amount.

If you find the conversation tedious, no one forced you to pop in and reply with your usual.

As for taking turns showing their community in an awful light, full agreement from me, hence my unequivocal condemnation of the issue that Downcow raised. My discussion point wasn't over who's sectarians are worse, it was purely a comparison of two specific events that I raised to provide context for where I put the initial incident raised in the overall sh*tshow spectrum. It genuinely didn't occur to me that anyone would possibly think that the chanting about the Queen was worse. My point perhaps could've been better made if I picked an incident from the Nationalist side to create the comparison to avoid it seeming like a, 'themmuns worse' point. If we wanted to have the, 'who's worst' argument, unfortunately there's a whole lot of things a damn sight worse than those incidents that would be pointed to.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666236#Comment_119666236

The third minority are happy with things as they are, not bothered, not considering the constitutional question. They wouldn't want integration into the UK and the abolition of Stormont, neither would they want a single unitary state on this island.

The challenge is to find something that appeals to them.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666331#Comment_119666331

Lots of far reaching statements and zero evidence as usual, Blanch.

You always try to speak with such authority about the attitudes and desires of the people of NI but you have almost zero actual lived experience. You basically just put together various opinions of your own and decide that some group shares them without evidence or indeed often in opposition to evidence.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666415#Comment_119666415

https://sluggerotoole.com/2022/09/22/census2021-a-first-look-shows-new-waves-of-identity-innovation-and-an-ageing-society/

"But if both unionists and nationalists are disappointed (and despite brave faces, they should be) that is because the two frozen identity blocs are melting and we are seeing fluidity in the middle. The hybrid identities, a jumble of Irish/British/Northern Irish/Scottish mixtures (plus Others) has risen to 19.4%. Taken together with the NI Only figure of 19.8%, the total who are moving beyond the solid bloc identities of exclusive British and exclusive Irish is now 39.2%."

This is the group that any proposal needs to appeal to. They are not interested in what SF are saying or what the DUP are saying.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666464#Comment_119666464

Is anyone disputing that there is a third identity in NI? Latest census figures suggest it isn't growing at anywhere near the rate you've suggested though.

This is also completely irrelevant to your claims that a federal solution, an independent NI or any of your other hare-brained schemes will appeal to them. I didn't ask for evidence that there was a third minority, which is essentially all you've provided. Most amusingly, you've specifically included the cohort that I personally fall into and that Downcow falls into while preaching to us about what those cohorts want!

Nor does it address my point that you continue trying to speak from a position of smug knowledge and authority with zero practical experience with NI. I'd warrant you've built more of your opinions precisely from reading Slugger O'Toole than actually experiencing anything.

Choochtown

Meanwhile more GAA inclusiveness ...

GAA and Ukrainian refugees: How volunteers are helping new members of the community feel at home | GAA News | Sky Sports

Different story now for sectarianism and sport in Northern Ireland – The Irish Times

North's first LGBTQ Inclusive GAA club gains more than 50 members in six weeks - The Irish News

Moradi: Keep going and never give up (rte.ie)

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665313#Comment_119665313

Well there we go. Sing the sash and choochtown can instantly work out your level of bigotry and sectarianism. Sounds to me like bigotry and sectarianism in action

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665402#Comment_119665402

I don’t intend getting sucked in to appearing to anything other than outright condemn the disgusting lowlifes that were singing or laughing during that rendition. But please don’t misquote me. I said I can only see approx 2 people singing. If you can see more then point them out to us and what they are wearing. Could you bring yourself to admit that clearly none (even those laughing) of the onlookers had ever heard the disgusting song before and that the vast vast majority took nothing to do with it.

you obviously have no idea what the Ira done to my community or you would not regard the celebrating of them benign. They didn’t just sing disgusting songs about those from the ‘other’ community, they tortured, murdered and intimidated them. So songs in their favour are just about as low as you can get. How would you honestly feel if you saw increasing thousands of unionist youth at loads of events and nights out singing ‘the U the U they UVF’, this happens at extreme loyalist events, but never at mainstream events. Can you really not have empathy with us?

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668072#Comment_119668072

I've said nothing about the IRA in the post you've quoted, Downcow? I was comparing, 'Lizzys in a box' to the song about Michaela McAreavey (which I've further qualified in a comment to Blanch was made to put my opinion on the song about the Queen onto the spectrum from bad to worse, not to make a, 'themmuns are worse' comparison; I equally accept I could've found similarly offensive songs to the one sang in the Orange Hall from the Republican side).

I absolutely reject your assertion that of the people visible, only two were singing and that NONE of the onlookers had heard it before, a blind man could tell there are a significant number of people contributing, but we're going nowhere with this discussion so I'll leave it at that.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667627#Comment_119667627

🙂 anybody but the unionist!

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668095#Comment_119668095

There's little point trying to engage with you. You obviously didn't read the articles.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668021#Comment_119668021

Nothing at all wrong with the song.

I've sung it myself in a bar in Westmeath.

Apart from that auspicious occasion I've only ever heard it sung as a provocative and aggressive chant.

I'd love you to post a video of it being performed as a folk song.

Choochtown

Genuine apologies Downcow.

Here's the great Liam Clancy singing it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CR6IL3fUvGU

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668163#Comment_119668163

I did speed read them. My reading was that the GAA are bigging up a few Ukrainians, etc playing and a couple of prods from some time ago. I could post historic stuff evidencing GAA supporting Ira etc but I was trying to deal with today and not trade links

downcow

Don’t have enough internet where I am atm. The suspense is killing me to see what you are apologising for

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668271#Comment_119668271

I had claimed that "the Sash ..." was rarely performed by anyone other than sectarian bigots. A quick search on YouTube proved me wrong as in the link it is sung passionately as a folk song by one of the great folk singers.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668205#Comment_119668205

😂 when someone says they are ‘genuine’, the one thing you can be pretty much guaranteed is that they are not about to be genuine.

genuine apologies to you to. I didn’t realise this was the song the Celtic fans sing https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_8AjQIcucaM

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668487#Comment_119668487

Ah yes Ballynafeigh... that gets us nicely right back on topic.

The GAA president's award this year went to the president of Bredagh GAA club primarily for his cross-community work with Ballynafeigh Unionist Forum (link attached)

https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-president-s-awards-for-2022-announced/

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668800#Comment_119668800

Sounds like a lovely man doing good work. He and me are on exactly the same page but he is out of step with many of you guys.

just take a wee minute and consider why he feels it necessary to engage a local unionist forum to have meaningful cross-community contact.

are we all in agreement now?

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668095#Comment_119668095

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669515#Comment_119669515

It's getting more and more ridiculous now!

The title of this thread is "GAA need to step up"

Yesterday I posted 4 links to recent examples of the GAA reaching out to all members of the local community including people of different cultures/ nationalities/ sexual orientations etc.

The answer from Downcow was (incorrectly) ... "anybody but the unionist"

Less than 13 hours later, Downcow's response to a GAA club reaching out directly and forging links with a Unionist Forum in Ballynafeigh is "consider why he feels it necessary to engage a local unionist forum"

Dickie10

if this discussion is an insight into the way people think in 6 counties, there welcome to it. people will be shocked if ever a border pooll is done at just how many republic of ireland voters would vote against a UNited Ireland. let them off together and paddle thier own canoe as an independent country with no ties to roi or england, see how they make it work. republic of ireland citizens owe northern ireland citizens nothing. there absolutley no civil rights issues anymore up there. if the likes of luxemburg, Andorra or Leichtenstein can be an independent nation surely northern ireland can be too. maybe could be a tax haven or something.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670749#Comment_119670749

My point, if you are struggling to recognise it, is if the GAA is already as diverse as many here suggest, then why in goodness would it commend someone for a ‘cross-community’ initiative with a unionist group?

I commend this initiative but while many of you continue to think there is no problem then you are making his work more challenging.

is there any other sport on this island that would connect with a unionist group to do cross community work? You made a far better point for my argument than I ever could 👍

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119673564#Comment_119673564

And my point, if you are struggling to recognise it, is that you started this discussion claiming that the GAA need to "step up" and when you are given clear examples of them doing so you complain that they shouldn't have to step up.

Can you seriously not see the hypocrisy in your viewpoint?

You display an alarming lack of awareness of the history of the organisation. Men have literally been murdered simply for being members of their local GAA club.

Let that sink in. Murdered for playing a particular sport.

In that context, surely reaching out to all members of local communities regardless of nationality/ sexual orientation/ religious background/ culture etc is to be commended.

I detest the way SOME people in NI love to pigeonhole certain sports or pastimes as them-uns or us-uns. I've noticed a serious kick back against the GAA for daring to have a club in East Belfast. How warped is that?

If you personally don't like the organisation then fair enough but if you're going to post unfair assumptions about it on a public forum then prepare to be challenged on your opinions.

downcow

No hypocrisy. My view is that

the GAA need to step up and take on the sectarianism in their organisation (some are doing it - well done)

lots of people on here claim they are already representative of all ni communities - yet also want to commend them for ‘reaching out’ to the unionist community. That’s the hypocrisy. You can’t have it both ways.

as for members murdered. We have come out of a terrible sectarian tit-for-tat murder campaign. People were murder for all sorts of reasons and certainly for belonging to organisations that were perceived exclusive eg GAA, OO, UUP, SF, etc etc. also lots of people were murdered for belonging to ira who happened to also be GAA members and for belonging to udr who happened to also be OO members. We all know it is very complicated. People were murdered by the Ira for being Protestant - let that sink in. Murdered for going to church on Sunday. Indeed murdered in church on Sunday

there is evidence that 40% of the Ira were members of the GAA. Much much bigger than any other sport. Let that sink in before you get all holier than thou

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674403#Comment_119674403

Every post is the same - "there's none so blind as those who will not see".

Keep moving those goal posts.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674403#Comment_119674403

The usual guff from yourself with the usual muddying of the waters by bringing in references to the IRA, OO, SF etc etc.

This thread is about the GAA. You should know as you started it. You have repeatedly stated that the organisation is "sectarian" (your words). When numerous links have been provided showing the GAA to be welcoming to all you have either disparaged them (eg. your scoffing at East Belfast GAA open day because it was held at a school that you perceived to be a "them-uns" school) or bizarrely held them up as proof that the GAA are sectarian!!!

No one is disputing that the GAA membership in the North predominantly from traditionally nationalist communities. That's not what this thread is about.

Your last post which includes the line "there is evidence that 40% of the Ira were members of the GAA" saddens me and reminds me of what passes as the voices of loyalism throughout social media these days. Unelected gobshites stirring up trouble in areas where they don't even live. Dangerous rhetoric designed to maintain division. Rhetoric that forced Belfast City Council to reverse a decision to develop a much needed GAA pitch. The same rhetoric that made GAA players "legitimate" targets in the eyes of loyalist paramilitaries. (That's why I brought up the murders. What it's got to do with Protestant church-goers I don't know ... whataboutery at its finest). As much as you try to deflect, this thread is about your assertion that the GAA is sectarian. It's not (or it shouldn't be) a TaigyProddy argument. This has been pointed out a few times now.

There are some bigots who would like us to go back to the days when GAA was for Taigs and Rugby was for Prods. When they stayed in their areas and we stayed in ours. The same people who HATE the fact that the GAA are reaching out to everyone, who HATE the "infiltration" into East Belfast and HATE the thought that the day is fast approaching when the good people of the North will not be obliged to belong to 1 camp or the other. That's the day that these gobshites lose their power.

What are you Downcow?

Are you the poster who cries "anybody but the unionist" (Downcow 26/09) when given evidence of outreach?

or are you the poster who cries "Sounds like a lovely man doing good work" (Downcow 27/09) when given more evidence of outreach?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675943#Comment_119675943

Hard to no where to start.

I did not bring up the murders. When you try to paint the GAA as an organisation that suffered differently than any other during the troubles, then expect to be corrected.

mad for their connections with the Ira that I quote which you say is claimed by unelected gobshites. Here is a thesis which will give you an insight if you are really that naive. If I recall I think it was 9 of the hunger strikers who were GAA members.

Mark Reynolds.pdf

Let me be clear again. I know lots of GAA members who are some of the best and least sectarian people I know. Most though have a blind spot when it comes to the GAA or they just feel it’s unchangeable. Also there is work happening to tinker at the edges and that is to be commended. But for you to compare a sport like rugby with a body like the GAA is just rediculous. I am not going to list again the clubs named after terrorists and that’s just one wee example.

bury your head if you wish

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119676829#Comment_119676829

When you try to paint the GAA as an organisation that suffered differently than any other during the troubles, then expect to be corrected.

Certainly a sporting organisation that suffered differently from any other.

Is this the new tactic Downcow?

No debate. Just repeat postings with GAA and IRA in the same sentences and that'll somehow prove something?

Aren't you the poster who started a previous thread about the GAA and claimed that at every single GAA match that you'd been to there had been a collection for republican movements at it? When you were called out on it, it transpired that you'd attended 1 match at Casemount Park and the collection had been in an adjacent street outside??!!!

I get that you have a hatred for the organisation. I just don't get why. Why the agenda?

Is it integration that you fear? Something else?