Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

But just for a second take stock of what actually happened last night.

A former POTUS has had a search warrant issued on foot of probable cause that he was involved in illegal activity and that evidence of such is in that house.

Forget about GOP, Dems or whatever, that in itself is an absolutely incredible thing to take place. Trump has now been impeached twice, sat by (if not actively encouraged) an attack on the capital and now is suspected by law enforcement of illegal activity to the extent that they feel confident that evidence not only exists of the crime but where that evidence is.

What the US wakes up to this morning is that either Trump is a criminal or the entire legal and policing system is totally corrupt. Trump, his supporters and it seems the GOP, prefer to want to believe that the second of these two possibilities is true. That in itself is much more troubling for the country. Trump will eventually be gone, but if the country really is so corrupt then it really no longer operates as a democracy. That is a pretty chilling 'truth' for these people to believe and raises serious and fundamental questions as to the future of the US.

Yeah, I doubt it, Trump will side-step his way out of this and turn it all to his advantage

Given the Trump record of not complying with requests and subpoenas, the mention of officials visiting Trump's home, his lawyers showing them where the documents were stored and being told to increase the storage security. It's not surprising that a warrant was issued and used to secure the documents. If he left with documents he was entitled to have while serving as President, some-one might have had cause for concern on the class and content of documents he took to Mar-A-Lago with his sense of entitlement after the officials did the security check at his home. The Secret Service provide security there due to his status. With his alleged habit of flushing papers down the toilet, it'd be embarrassing if they found classified documents better shredded and burnt while doing internal security checks of the home. The documents security wasn't improved as Trump confirmed the FBI were able to open his safe and leave his home with boxes of documents etc.

Exactly.

And simply not returning top secret documents to the archive, while these documents lie somewhere in a box or a safe, would not really be enough for that. Because, effectively, the secrets are kept - no harm, no foul.

The following is pure speculation:

Probable cause would be if he sold top secret information to Saudi Arabia.

Probable cause would be if he sold top secret information to Russia.

Probable cause would be if he sold top secret information to Israel.

Probable cause would be if he sold top secret information to Saudi Arabia, Russia and Israel.

Probable cause would be if the documents contain evidence of one or more crimes committed by him or his associates.

While the most reasonable assumption is that there was indeed some significant probable cause, it's never a good idea to completely rule out incompetence as a driving factor...

The reported comments of Trump in reference to his generals talking of loyalty and allegedly wishing they were like Hitler's generals is probably more of the kind of stated desire he made directly to the FBI director he fired soon after. Trump's made it plain he doesn't care if blood flows on US City streets.

Presumably as information comes out on what the Feds were after the narrative will slowly change, bit like the testimony that Trump tried to force his security detail on Jan 6th. Total dimissal, followed by small walk backs, followed by personalised attacks, followed by slowly slinking away.

Taking the documents in the first place is the crime, the law signed off by Trump himself.

They can't afford to wait until they are actually sold on. There is a crime such as drug possession, you don't need to be caught actually taking it for it to be a crime.

The story so far seems to be that he took the documents, it was noted that he had taken them and he was asked to return them. His home was visited and extra security was requested. I'm not certain, but I assume the documents were again requested (nothing would have changed in terms of the need to return them). He refused to return them despite a warning of the potential crime. The FBI raid his house to retrieve the documents.

The probable cause was they knew the documents were in the house. They knew he knew they wanted them back, and they knew he was refusing to comply with the request.

It is very telling that in all the bluster from Fox, GOP heads, and supporters nobody is claiming that Trump didn't have the documents, not even Trump himself. Nobody is defending him. All they are doing is attacking everyone else.

Why haven't Trump or his lawyers released the search warrant? That right there suggests guilt of something straight away does it not?

You're saying "it isn't much a stretch to at least entertain the possibility that he would use these documents to make money", which is exactly the type of thing I was referring to.

Using the documents to make money, having them stored in a location where 3rd parties have easy access, showing them to anyone in exchange for favours - that's entirely different to holding on to documents as a merely personal reminder when writing an autobiography. Which would probably not trigger a warrant.

As of now, it's safe to assume that most of the 'sources' quoted by news media are not sources from the justice department, which does not comment on ongoing investigations, but sources in the orbit of an alleged criminal, which may be subject to criminal charges themselves. So the information that has been reported might not be terribly reliable.

And, AFAIK - search warrants are never executed to prevent a crime, they are executed when there is evidence that there may have already been a crime committed.

I hold Trump in as low a regard as the next man but just because it may be his MO to make money in as many ways as occurs to him does that mean that that was the uppermost reason for holding on to those documents.

The potential for blackmailing opponents might be the one that might spring to my mind.

It would be fascinating if an example of such behaviour came to light.

We,as the general public are entitled to be entertained by the release of information pertaining to his squalid existence in recompense for the damage he has inflicted on the body politic and society in general.

His supporters need to hear this too ,but for different ,pathetic reasons(those using hin as a tool to further their own shameful and shameless goals are are different case )