Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453599#Comment_119453599

The emails were the 1st thing they think about , because it's all about the money.

Those begging mails were out within an hour or two of the FBI arriving in Mar-a-Lago.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453599#Comment_119453599

Do you know what the terms of an offence under the 2018 Trump law are? Removing classified documents is hardly a minor offence. It is a clear breach of national security. You are assuming nothing nefarious was planned, but why take, and then hold onto, the documents? He must be doing it for a reason. We know he is already looking to bank on this by getting people to pay him money, so it isn't much a stretch to at least entertain the possibility that he would use these documents to make money.

There is a load of GOP hypocritically saying that a private individual that they count as important should be treated above the law, but only because he is a potential candidate. None of it stands up to even the mildest of scrutiny.

I don't know what the warrant was for, so we are all dealing with speculation but those that follow these things seem pretty convinced that at the very least these classified documents form part of it. The fact that Trump has not come out to say he never had them or that he had already given them back is, IMO, pretty telling.

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453763#Comment_119453763

You're saying "it isn't much a stretch to at least entertain the possibility that he would use these documents to make money", which is exactly the type of thing I was referring to.

Using the documents to make money, having them stored in a location where 3rd parties have easy access, showing them to anyone in exchange for favours - that's entirely different to holding on to documents as a merely personal reminder when writing an autobiography. Which would probably not trigger a warrant.

As of now, it's safe to assume that most of the 'sources' quoted by news media are not sources from the justice department, which does not comment on ongoing investigations, but sources in the orbit of an alleged criminal, which may be subject to criminal charges themselves. So the information that has been reported might not be terribly reliable.

And, AFAIK - search warrants are never executed to prevent a crime, they are executed when there is evidence that there may have already been a crime committed.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453763#Comment_119453763

Exactly - Trump has never once disputed the nature of the DOJ position , he has never once said "I don't have what they are looking for" or "I've done nothing wrong".

His ONLY complaint is that they didn't want to continue playing legal tennis with him indefinitely and that somehow enforcing the law on him specifically is some egregious assault on America.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453763#Comment_119453763

He could publish the warrant and the inventory of what was confiscated by the FBI.

But true to form he would rather use the search to get money from the similarly minded and simple minded.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453900#Comment_119453900

How long did they string out the "Blockbuster" report that apparently proved that Obama spied on him?

They played it out for months and months and then it eventually came out and said nothing remotely like what they had been claiming and proved none fo what they said.

This is exactly the same thing.

It's a game to collect money and deflect attention from the truth.

amandstu

I hold Trump in as low a regard as the next man but just because it may be his MO to make money in as many ways as occurs to him does that mean that that was the uppermost reason for holding on to those documents.

The potential for blackmailing opponents might be the one that might spring to my mind.

It would be fascinating if an example of such behaviour came to light.

We,as the general public are entitled to be entertained by the release of information pertaining to his squalid existence in recompense for the damage he has inflicted on the body politic and society in general.

His supporters need to hear this too ,but for different ,pathetic reasons(those using hin as a tool to further their own shameful and shameless goals are are different case )

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453869#Comment_119453869

search warrants are never executed to prevent a crime, they are executed when there is evidence that there may have already been a crime committed.

And they haven't been in this case. The crime was already done by Trump taking the records. He was requested to give them back but failed to do so. You are attempting to portray that crime as a minor crime, but I asked do you actually know it is a minor crime based on the law or whether you just happen to think it is minor.

The issue about what he would do with the documents is only in reply to your assertion that since he hadn't done anything (that we know of) then sure it's all grand. But that isn't what the law says. It is a scenario introduced by yourself and now you complain that since it didn't happen, to your knowledge, the original crime should be ignored.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454653#Comment_119454653

The crime was him having them in the 1st place , the expediency of their actions may have been driven by a desire to prevent further crimes being committed.

joe35

It could all be a clever plan by Trump to grift money.

He took a few documents, nothing of any note, maybe a few letters to the first lady or something.

Mouths out of him that he took 'important' docs. FBI ask for them back, he says no.

Search warrant issued. If nothing of note is found in his possession it's a great play for Donald to come out with.

" Poor me, everybody is against me, I only took a few personal letters"

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454682#Comment_119454682

He's not that smart.

Everything Trump has ever done has been exactly what it looks like..

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454653#Comment_119454653

Please don't misread what I'm trying to say - I think your point of view and mine are actually quite similar.

I'm not trying to minimise the crime of effectively stealing documents from the White House - if anything, I'd hope that anyone committing a crime like this would be prosecuted equally.

But there is also the reality that a search warrant would inevitably become highly politicised. So the justice department would make sure that there is a water tight case, that they have strong, fact based reasons for a search warrant - as opposed to the more cautious way that they used to address the mishandling of documents for the last half year, by negotiating with his lawyers.

There is a reason they stopped negotiating, and there is a reason they made a choice to use a search warrant as a tool to proceed, as opposed to issuing a subpoena.

We can either speculate that the justice department effectively lost patience and started to get more serious about the publicly known, obvious crime of violating the presidential records act - which seems to be your point of view, if I understand correctly. Or my point of view, which is speculating about something possibly more nefarious that triggered the change in strategy of the justice department. We don't have enough information as of now to know which it is, or what else may be going on behind the scenes.

I, for one, have put popcorn on my shopping list, for when more details come out...

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454939#Comment_119454939

There is a reason they stopped negotiating, and there is a reason they made a choice to use a search warrant as a tool to proceed, as opposed to issuing a subpoena.

trump never negotiates in good faith so how long should the DOJ have waited?

 So the justice department would make sure that there is a water tight case, that they have strong, fact based reasons for a search warrant

strong reasons that convinced a judge that there was probable cause that a crime was committed and that a search of the location of the warrant would reveal evidence of that crime.

Do you think they didn't have that probable cause? what is your issue with the warrant?

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455015#Comment_119455015

??

I have no issue with the warrant, I assume that they had very strong probable cause.

I've read some emerging news, that the defendant's lawyers who have a list of the items seized by the FBI don't even show this list to other close associates, much less publicise it - which might be the prudent strategy, if it would in any way exonerate him.

So maybe the content of some of the documents was the trigger to go from negotiating to issuing a search warrant.

When his lawyers returned 15 boxes of documents to the national archives earlier this year, there was a 150 page inventory list of unclassified items, and a much shorter, several page long unclassified list of classified items. Some items not listed on the public classify list, because even listing them is classified, because or the extreme sensitivity.

aloyisious

The DOJ will have to get details of evidential matter the FBI found out to the media and the Archive people may have to publish details of whatever it was Trump DID NOT hand over to it on request to prove he is consistently refusing to co-operate with it by keeping possession of national and historical material he is NOT entitled to possess. Ref the warrant, it seems that some of Trump supporters are now interested in the judge who signed it.

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455427#Comment_119455427

Not sure about that - the DOJ has zero legal obligation to reveal anything to the press, especially in an ongoing investigation.

We may have to wait till the investigation is over, and maybe till there is an actual indictment, before we get any real information.

There is, of course, a lot of political pressure on the DOJ to explain their actions, but that's entirely disconnected from the legal process.

Unicorn Milk Latte

...and, regarding the judge who signed it: there are a lot of angry outbursts, up to calls for a civil war, among social media posts and public statements of the supporters.

I believe there is probably next to zero actual appetite for civil war among the supporters. But there is a real danger, that this kind of messaging can have an effect on the most radicalised supporters, resulting in an increased threat to the lives of some high profile politicians, and people like the judge who signed the warrant. Like the abduction/assassination plot regarding Gretchen Whitmer in the past.

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449853#Comment_119449853

##Mod SNIP##

Not up to standard for the Politics Forum

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119455464#Comment_119455464

That's accepted. I'm thinking of some details which are not important to any charges but with value to burst the bubble the Trump supporters and general s***-stirrers are getting airborne. As exampled by the references online from nutjobs related to Trump's fanbase. to the judges welfare.

amandstu

They might find a use for that in Kiev if it could be lobbed over the lines...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453967#Comment_119453967

Well that is just it, but you have to have people ill, stupid and /or wrong enough to hand over the money.

Quite often the same reasons for those who post pro Russian stuff in relation to the war in the Ukraine. Funnily enough they also have a habit of cheer posting for trump, LePen, Orban etc.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119454477#Comment_119454477

It's about what they can get away with, it seems a bit strange that he would be keeping the documents anyway unless they had some sort of value for him. Whatever the value is, even if illegal, the supporters of trump will be less happy that they have been removed from his possession (even if that value is proof of something illegal or silly he did while president).

The need to never be wrong about something is what seems to be fueling a lot of this, hence the wish for another presidential run (which looks disastrous for the GOP unless they can bend the laws this way and that), similar to those hoping Boris gets a cabinet position under truss (or just supporting truss at all as the closest to boris).

aloyisious

CNN news is running a report [from the WSJ] that an informant told the FBI that there were still classified documents from the Trump White House years at Mar-A-Lago following on from the time Trump & Co handed over some classified documents to the National Archives and that is why they went there with a search warrant. I checked the online WSJ and can't find that report. However it has a report about the FBI visit to Trump's home in June [the officials advisory visit] and advised the person concerned that a stronger lock be fitted to a storage-room door behind which there were government records, after which the relationship between the FBI and the former Presidents associates went downhill [to quote the WSJ words]. It's unclear whether the FBI visitors back in June saw the records in the storage room. Records is a peculiar word to use to describe classified documents but it might mean the records are not all written records.

In terms of ongoing friendship between Mr Murdoch and Trump, there do seem to be more stories about Trump in the WSJ now which he might not like.

The use of the word informant in relation to the tip the FBI got seems to infer some-one within Mar-A-Lago is feeding them current information. That notion is probably something likely to increase any worries Trump has about his confidences.

Unicorn Milk Latte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456850#Comment_119456850

Maybe CNN got it wrong, and they are not referring to a story from the WSJ, but this new report from Newsweek, which reports just what you describe.

I'd still be cautious about the quality of the information, given that it comes most likely from associates of the person under investigation, who are, at this time, trying to control the narrative.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453377#Comment_119453377

Not true. Never suggested injecting bleach. Watch the video, never even said the word bleach.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456891#Comment_119456891

He said injecting disinfectant. Sodium hypochlorite is a disinfectant. It's also commonly known as bleach.

Will be interesting to see the warrant and the evidence given for a judge to issue the warrant. If they don’t find something big this will blow up in their face not to mention potentially weaponising the DOJ to pursue a political opponent.

So far the stated reasons don’t stand up to scrutiny. If documents were taken then the national archive would recover those through legal channels as has happened with previous government officials and never with the use of 30 or so FBI agents. If they used the “unrecovered documents” as pretext to obtain a search warrant to obtain info in relation to Jan 6 then that is v concerning for anyone who values due process and rule of law.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456906#Comment_119456906

Here’s the full video, continue to perpetuate misinformation if you wish.

https://youtu.be/33QdTOyXz3w

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456920#Comment_119456920

From 24 seconds to 36 seconds in that very video he suggests that disinfectant by injection might be worth trying. Don't accuse me of what you're attempting to do yourself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119456906#Comment_119456906

Hydrogen peroxide is also a disinfectant, salt and boiling water are disinfectant, there are several natural remedies that are disinfectants.