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The Collapse in Home Ownership was Fine Gael Policy

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135

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    #62
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394873#Comment_119394873

    In what way has there been a collapse in home ownership as most homes are still privately owned?

    However, whilst a lot of new properties are funded as build-to-lets this doesn't cause a "collapse" in home ownership. One could ask, if that funding wasn;t there, would those properties even have been built?


    I also note how you've completely ignored my thoughts on a solution for the housing issue but followed a trajectory towards conspiracy theory of a globalist society.



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    #63
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    There is so much wrong with your theory, OP, that I don't even know where to start.

    The current housing catastrophe (and it is one) is the result of a combination of factors including legacy issues from the property bubble and crash and some of which are beyond the direct control of the government. The financialisation and marketisation of housing systems in the West coupled with neo-liberal economic policy has been a disaster.

    I teach urban geography and housing at university level and am published in the area so I think I know the deeply complex Irish housing system a little better than you.



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    #64
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395061#Comment_119395061

    Accord to the ERSI only 10% of under 35s currently are home owners (with or without mortgage) they project that in this cohort 1 in 2 will never buy. Compared to 90% owning in the current generation of pensioners. Thats a collapse



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    #65
    Mike Murdock
    Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394629#Comment_119394629

    Now go find the 25-50k skilled tradespeople you'll need to implement your plan. Not only find them, but also house them too. That is a serious shortage we face here.



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    #66
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395140#Comment_119395140

    But you're now breaking down the ownership figures whereas the thread title states a collapse in home ownership and there wasn no comparison of under-35s against other age groups.

    So if you are looking at ownership amongst specific age groups, have you the ownership trends for these age groups? Have you comparable trends in other countries?



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    #67
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395159#Comment_119395159

    So what point are you trying to make?

    My dad could buy a house in a decent area on 1 income of a average job in 1985, I cant even get an apartment in a similar role (accountancy), older cousins all could in the celtic tiger.

    None of my peers in late 20s or early 30s can buy in Dublin either. No one I went to school or college with has bought. So for my generation this is an end of the world issue and is causing us massive distress and mental health issues.

    And yes other countries have the same problem. Capitalism has failed to deliver basic needs to people



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    #68
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The actual numbers would disagree with you. The majority of houses built last year was bought by people and not companies.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395208#Comment_119395208

    People are buying houses every day of the week.

    This rubbish been floated on the internet that nobody can buy a home is not reflected in what is actually happening. You are trying to say you talk for an entire generation which is a big statement to make. Especially when the numbers of houses sold to people totally disagree with you

    The problem is lack of supply.

    As I said on other threads, contact the TD and party you support and ask them to stop blocking houses in Ireland. The days of blocking houses should be over and done with, especially when parties are doing it for political gain.



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    #69
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395243#Comment_119395243

    The average income in Ireland is 48k, apartments start a minimum of 200k in Dublin. Single people on normal incomes cannot buy. Couples on normal incomes struggle to get a 3 bed house as they start at 250 plus. So no, its not rubbish. Most working people especially singles cant buy in Dublin anymore. And Wicklow or Kildare are no different.

    If this wasnt reflective of reality we wouldnt have political upheaval about it



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    #70
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395243#Comment_119395243

    Im opposed to build to rent, and Im opposed to private housing on public land. Neither provide the housing thats needed.



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    #71
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395208#Comment_119395208

    I'm not trying to make a point. You started this by claiming a collapse in ownership. Now you're claiming that the collapse in for one particular age group so I'm asking to see trends not whether your cousin was able to buy at a time when banks were tripping over themselves to lend money to people without proper stress testing.

    As for this being an "end of the world issue" - really?



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    #72
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395271#Comment_119395271

    Strangely exactly what a certain opposition supporter would say

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395265#Comment_119395265

    The number disagree with you and the majority of homes got bought by people last year.

    You said home ownership is down, then you said it was a certain group. Now you are trying to say single and couple can't buy houses and talk about average income?????

    You are all over the palce



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    #73
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395273#Comment_119395273

    Of course its end of the world issue, end of capitalism anyway

    How can someone have any property or future in this country without owning a home or having social housing?



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    #74
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395289#Comment_119395289

    The majority of apartments built in Dublin are build to rent.

    The average income cant buy a apartment in Dublin.

    Do you think its acceptable for hundreds of thousands of people to have to rent?



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    #75
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395208#Comment_119395208


    That's because it was the backend of nowhere. Half the of Dublin was derelict in the 80s. It wasn't a European capital like it is now.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0p8e1MUC0E&ab_channel=MichaelLawless


    Find a city anywhere in Europe like Dublin in the 80s, and you'll have no problem getting a place.



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    #76
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395300#Comment_119395300

    That footage is from the day they filmed the riot scene of in the name of the father, it was made look that way



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    #77
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395299#Comment_119395299

    No they are not. As I said the majority are bought by home owners.

    This is too similar to what is floating around the web, you don't happen to be part of Sinn Fein online supporters by any chance?



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    #78
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    Key Findings:

    • Ireland has experienced a marked drop in homeownership rates in recent years. This has been particularly acute for younger-aged households, with the share of 25-34 year olds living independently who own their own home more than halving between 2004 and 2019, falling from 60 per cent to just 27 per cent.
    • In comparison with current retirees (aged 65+) where the homeownership rate is around 90 per cent, homeownership rates are around 10 percentage points lower (approximately 80 per cent) for those currently aged 55-64 and 45-54; this differential is unlikely to close substantially for these groups given their position in the lifecycle.
    • There is greater uncertainty over the 25-34 age group given their age and lifecycle earnings prospects. Nonetheless, the simulated rate of homeownership is lower again for the youngest age group, 25-34, with approximately one-in-two households likely to become homeowners in the majority of scenarios explored.
    • Lower rates of homeownership are likely to lead to substantially higher income poverty rates after-housing costs (AHC) in retirement. The research finds that AHC income poverty rates for those approaching retirement would reach 31 per cent under a low future homeownership scenario, 28 per cent under a medium future homeownership scenario, and 21 per cent under a high future homeownership scenario, compared to 14 per cent at present.

    https://www.esri.ie/news/future-retirees-likely-to-face-lower-homeownership-which-may-pose-challenges-for-retirement



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    #79
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058256317/the-collapse-in-home-ownership-was-fine-gael-policy


    You're blaming the govt that came after the financial meltdown not the ones that caused the financial meltdown.

    Make sense....



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    #80
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395292#Comment_119395292

    Well from some of your suggestioons, you seem to be proposing some form of socialist solution - am I correct?

    You're happy to end competition rules and happy for the state to take control of house building.

    I can't see many going for that and will continue with the status quo where both our traditional governing parties (FF & FG) along with the likes of SF will bullshit the electorate with promises of solving the issue but all the while pandering to the loudest group and pretty much making the situation worse.

    However, it being an "end of the world issue " or the "end of capitalism", you need to lay off whatever it is that you're taking there!



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    #81
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395313#Comment_119395313

    Im not a member of SF, Im actually a social democrat voter.

    Im am late 20s, earning 40k, living at home working a second weekend job to help save. Saving over 2000 a month and facing having to move to Navan or Drogheda to buy and very very pissed off about it



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    #82
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395323#Comment_119395323

    Yes, I want to see the Vienna model implemented. 70% of their population lives in public housing tied to 20% of their earnings

    I also want to see an end to multi nationals using Ireland as a tax haven

    I want a socialist country because the current one is a horrible disaster for young people



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    #83
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395311#Comment_119395311

    Trust me Dublin in the 80s looked like that.

    It was like the Blitz.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/dirty-old-town-1.897849

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmP74nV6Z1Y&ab_channel=GerrySmith



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    #84
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    Since people are amazing claiming we dont have a housing crisis, why are SF so popular. If everyone could buy a home where they work (ie no crisis) then people would be supporting the status quo



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    #85
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    The government didn't make lots of couples spend 25-30 grand on their weddings before not being able to afford their home.

    Because god forbid we have a bit of personal accountability in the country.

    Of course not everyone did that - just my take on seeing some people moaning about it.



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    #86
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395327#Comment_119395327

    For years it was the same for everyone, now everyone expects a house for free. When I first started working in Dublin I would have loved a free house handed to me but it wasn't.

    My parents got told at 16 and 17 to get out of the house, both went to London and met in London. No jobs in Ireland.

    You can borrow 140k. So get a pay rise to 50k and you can buy in Dublin(even at 140k you might get a place if you are quick)

    So if I was you I would be in the office tomorrow asking your manager what you need to do to get a pay rise, explain why etc and most companies would love to see that initiative



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    #87
    Housing99
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395348#Comment_119395348

    I live in that if it means not having to up root my life to a town hours away with no support network to have a home, you sound like a boomer with no idea of what its like for younger workers



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    #88
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395327#Comment_119395327


    You're lucky. A lot of previous generations had no choice but to emigrate.

    You're complaining about going 30 mins up the road on a motorway.



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    #89
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395323#Comment_119395323

    In fairness to the OP it really is a disaster for a lot of younger folks with rents going through the roof. They're getting rode half to death with rents.


    Most of the homeowning voters though bought years ago and don't give a b*llix. They don't see a problem at all.



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    #90
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395377#Comment_119395377

    I was 17 and I left home, first to college miles away and working every day/night/weekend to pay for it. I actually got hired in college so straight from college to work.

    I was lucky to get home 2-3 times a year. "support network", you are in your f**king late 20's

    My company hires people from all over the World, in late 20s they come to Ireland to get a different experience yet you are complaining because you might have to move a few mins away from Mammy



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    #91
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395377#Comment_119395377


    If you think thats bad try it in another country with a different language.

    But you won't make that effort.



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