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Importing from Northern Ireland

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  • 20-07-2022 4:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭


    Hi Guys what's the process for importing from the North with brexit, vat? Import license etc



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭smmember20


    Nothing has changed, why do you thing the northern Ireland protocol is in place!

    If you have a southern Irish License you do not need and import license, you used to need an Article 7 for B classed firearms but that I am unsure of but easily accessed so get one in any case.

    Easiest way to collect a licensed firearm in NI is to apply for a NI visitors permit, £16 and need a sponsor but the dealer you purchase from will most likely sponsor you.

    If you do not want to do that then you need to transfer from dealer to dealer and you will pay commission.

    What are you looking to import, CZ P09 and Buckmark available direct from Ardee sport!



  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭loonymoony


    Looking at the Taurus TX22



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    Individuals importing from a member state of the EU

    1. Read these instructions carefully before submitting your application. Complete the Application form.
    2. Make sure you have filled in:
    3. (a) the exact make and model of the firearm
    4. (b) the correct Category A-C (PDF - 88KB)
    5. Attach to the application a copy of the valid firearms certificate for the firearm or ammunition to be imported.
    6. For firearms listed as Category B (PDF - 88KB) you will need to obtain a document entitled an Article 7. This is issued by a superintendent of An Garda Síochána. A copy will have to be sent to us with your application to import the firearms.
    7. You can fill in the form using type or in handwriting. If completing it in handwriting please use black ink and block capitals.
    8. Forward the documentation to the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Unit of the Department of Justice. We will issue a transfer document to you so that you can use it to legally import the firearms and/or ammunition.

     smmember20 is this not still the process ?

    The reason I ask, is it not the department that controls the importation of firearms to the Rep, not the Garda, if a firearms comes in without a permit the department doesn't have a record of its entry to the Rep. It doesn't matter if its NI or Germany it has to be imported, has that changed recently ? I'm importing one in the next few months, and have always got an import license and Article 7 for pistols when bringing them in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    You wont pay VAT bringing a firearm in from NI at this moment in time they are still working under EU customs regulations, Now the DUP and Conservatives are looking to change that ,but as of now your ok.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    You have the process right for importing a firearm.

    smmember20's process is for going up to NI and retrieving the firearm yourself, not importing it via a third party(courier, etc).

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    I have done it both ways and have always got import paper work, as I was importing the firearm to the Rep.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    If you go an collect the firearm and transport it personally like in a car, plane etc (from Germany, NI, or anywhere else) you don't need an import permit, just a licence here and at your collection country.

    Import permits are only required if you are getting a firearm shipped to Ireland from an external country.

    Same as if you wanted to bring your gun on the plane with you to a course on the continent you wouldn't need an import & export permit, just a licence in both locations.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    If you are bringing a firearm into the country you need to import it, always. Your example of traveling with your gun to a "course" or competition abroad is not the same as you're bringing the gun back with you. It's why we have EU gun passes.

    Without an import there is no record of how the gun came into the country so when it comes to filling out the fca1 how do you explain the source of the firearm.

    Frankly lads I find it incredulous and even somewhat dangerous the amount of talk about not needing to import a firearm. Whether you collect the gun in-person or have it delivered you need to import it using the import process so the DoJ and AGS know there is a gun being brought in. I'd also hazard a guess that the dealer on the other end needs to explain where they are sending firearms to, hence their need for an export "license".

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    I was under the impression that so long as I put the firearm's source down on the licence application(Germany for example), and the dealer's details, then if I have my licence here, EU firearms pass with the firearm listed on it, and take a plane over to Germany, get the necessary paperwork to possess it there, and return with it then no import permit is required.

    AGS still know the firearm was brought into the country from the application's details, but because it isn't being imported(instead being carried by the licence holder) it doesn't need an import permit.


    Open to correction of course but I never found anything saying the above was illegal, and AGS would still be aware of the source of the firearm and that it was being brought into the country from my notes attached to the application.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,975 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I was under the impression that so long as I put the firearm's source down on the licence application(Germany for example), and the dealer's details, then if I have my licence here, EU firearms pass with the firearm listed on it, and take a plane over to Germany, get the necessary paperwork to possess it there, and return with it then no import permit is required.

    AGS still know the firearm was brought into the country from the application's details, but because it isn't being imported(instead being carried by the licence holder) it doesn't need an import permit


    98% correct. You do still need an import permit from the DOJ, to confirm with the German authorities that you can legally import and possess, so they can issue the export cert and tick it off their books. Once it's on your EU permit and you have the Irish license with you Then YES you can travel to Germany to collect it from the dealer.

    Same as you can personally carry your own firearm over for repair, service, etc without needing an import /export cert.

    Although I'd wait a bit looking at the chaos of lost luggage in Dublin at the moment.The thought of a bag with a big orange sticker saying UNLOADED FIREARM going amiss ...!!!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Almost.

    The gun is being brought over from say Germany but won't be going back. Therefore it's being permanently imported into the country . All firearms coming into the state, and remaining here as a licensed firearm must be imported. No exceptions.

    On another point the EU firearms pass is NOT a license in of itself. It's a passport of sorts that list the firearms you are licensed to and may travel with but does not act in any way as a form of legal importation authorisation.

    Same with an Irish gun license it's a license to possess a firearm, not an import authorisation (for firearms).

    As for AGS knowing, all they know is you licensed a firearm. They may or may not know it was in another country but even if they do it's in another country. Without an import, as far as DoJ/AGS are concerned it's still there.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    incase there is any confusion the Garda issue firearms license's, they are not responsible for the importation of firearms to Ireland, this falls under the control of Dept of Justice. Every legal firearm that comes into the country whether its imported by an individual or by a RFD bringing in multiples at a time have to be recorded in the State, not by the Garda but by the Dept of Justice. Its covered in the EU firearms Directive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BillBen


    Sorry for high jacking this thread. Does anyone know how long it takes for the department of Justice to process an import application. Cheers



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Quickest I've had was 2 days.

    Slowest was a little over a month(around Christmas so expected).

    Usually somewhere in the middle so ~ 2-3 weeks tops.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BillBen


    Cheers for the reply.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I always sent mine in, via email, first thing Monday morning and the paperwork arrived by no later than Friday the same week. Leave it last Monday and it'll be the following week.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BillBen


    Great Cheers cass



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭smmember20


    So can you explain how an Article 7 issued by a Superintendent fits into the equation?

    Once issued a firearms license acts like an import certificate as you do not need an import certificate to transfer a firearm within the EU as long as you have your license and in the initial import an Article 7, there after to move from state to state in the EU you only need an EU Firearms Pass.



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    An Article 7 is required for Category B firearms listed below, as you said it is issued by the Superintendent to confirm to the Dept that you are indeed licensed for Cat B firearm, and sent to Dept of Justice when applying for an Import license, its to show the Dept that the firearm you are importing is Category B. If the firearm is not Cat B Article 7 is not required.


    Category B —   Firearms subject to authorisation 1. Repeating short firearms. 2. Single‐shot short firearms with centre‐fire percussion. 3. Single‐shot short firearms with rimfire percussion whose overall length is less than 28 cm. 4. Semi‐automatic long firearms whose loading device and chamber can together hold more than three rounds in the case of rimfire firearms and more than three but fewer than twelve rounds in the case of centre‐fire firearms. 5. Semi‐automatic short firearms other than those listed under point 7(a) of category A. 6. Semi‐automatic long firearms listed under point 7(b) of category A whose loading device and chamber cannot together hold more than three rounds, where the loading device is detachable or where it is not certain that the weapon cannot be converted, with ordinary tools, into a weapon whose loading device and chamber can together hold more than three rounds. 7. Repeating and semi‐automatic long firearms with smooth‐bore barrels not exceeding 60 cm in length. 8. Any firearm in this category that has been converted to firing blanks, irritants, other active substances or pyrotechnic rounds or into a salute or acoustic weapon. 9. Semi‐automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms other than those listed under point 6, 7 or 8 of category A

    " as long as you have your license and in the initial import an Article 7, there after to move from state to state in the EU you only need an EU Firearms Pass."

    You are correct here as long as your initial import had the proper documentation required you do not need an import document to move within the EU.

    The question asked by loonymoony referred to the import of firearms' into the Rep, not the movement of firearms within the EU. Two completely different things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Article 7 is just another made up EU rule thrown in front of you as an obstacle. Irish law states that your Firearm Certificate is enough to import that firearm from any jurisdiction, but EU then interdicted and introduced the Article 7 to muddle things up. If you want to import from Afghanistan, then your FAC is your import document

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    Individuals importing from a country which is not a member of the EU:

    1. Read these instructions carefully before submitting your application.
    2. Complete the application form fully
    3. Make sure you have filled in:
    4. (a) the exact make and model of the firearm
    5. (b) the correct Category A-C (PDF - 88KB)
    6. Category B (PDF - 88KB)
    7. Attach to the application a copy of the valid firearms certificate for the firearm or ammunition to be imported.
    8. You can fill in the form using type or in handwriting. If completing it in handwriting please use black ink and block capitals.
    9. Marking requirements under the EU Firearms Directive came into effect on 1 September 2019. In accordance with Statutory Instruments No. 420 of 2019 and No. 283 of 2021 , firearms and their essential components being imported into the European Union must be marked in compliance with the Directive. Essential components are defined as the barrel; the frame; the receiver (including both upper and lower receiver); the slide; the cylinder; and the bolt or breech block.
    10. Forward the documentation to the Firearms Unit of the Department of Justice. We will issue a transfer document to you so that you can use it to legally import the firearms and/or ammunition.




  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭judestynes


    The hardest part of this process I've encountered so far is paying the PSNI the £16.00. The documentation can't be submitted online (not so far as I've found anyway)and an online payment option is not available either. Anpost do not issue postal order's in sterling anymore (even if you have a pair of flairs and platform shoes 🤨) and banks won't issue a bankers draught in sterling for less that £500.00. The dealer I'm buying from will submit the visitors pass application for me but for a fee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    do you have paypal, if you want to pm me I can get you a postal order from the North, if your stuck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭judestynes


    Cheers mate, I'll just let the dealer handle it. Thanks for the offer though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭smmember20


    It is just with Brexit and the special position of NI that I expect the current situation to remain the same, the Article 7 is a document that records entry into the state, yes it is an EU requirement but still covers you in the current circumstances I expect, getting both covers all bases and costs nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 dvgeddes


    I am looking at a rifle in a uk dealers which I cant purchase here,they will deliver to a dealer in northern Ireland of my choise, I realise I have to apply for an import License and a visitor permit to collect...my question, Are there duties and taxes to be payed. I don't want to be faced with extra hidden costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    no import fees if your importing from NI, so state the NI dealers info on your application forms. You will have a fee to have it sent to NI a fee to have it stored in NI and a fee to travel through NI with the firearm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 dvgeddes


    Thanks, the other alternative is to buy it from the Netherlands as I did with a PSP rifle a few years ago,but the dealer stung me for 120 euro for the import License, I will be applying myself in future,should I get them to send to a dealer or could it be sent straight to my address if I made sure they held until they received the import License.



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    You can have it sent to your home address if your hold a license for the firearm and they get a copy of license and import documents, if buying from EU check the fees to, some can be expensive to have exported.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34 dvgeddes


    Thanks wadi14,I got a Hatsan bullboss from krale Netherlands delivered to a dealer for 16 euro. I didn't realise when I bought it that it would be a restricted firearm.a but of Hoop jumping needed. Want to sell now as I bought a FX dreamline tactical .25 which I love very accurate and light.



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