Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

DM89 · 15-04-2022 8:42pm

Hello All,

We have put a deposit down on a new build home that is "off plans". We were shown site plans & layout of the houses and viewed the site with the estate agent and all seemed good.

We have now got to the contract stage and we noticed a big problem when looked through the contract.

All of the houses are in a strait line and the plans we saw showed all the garden were the same size and also in a straight line like the houses.

However in the contract we noticed that our garden (& only our garden) has a large chunk taken out of it by the house beside us. They will now have a bigger garden then everyone else and we will now have a smaller garden then everyone else, yet we are paying the same amount. The house beside us doesn't have planning permission granted yet (it will soon i hear).

We would be devastated to withdraw from this sale but also feel really misled as it was never brought to our attention. The first indication was in the contract which i am thankful we looked through now.

Our solicitor has tried to contact them twice and has got no response from them

Is there anything we can do?

C. Eastwood · 15-04-2022 10:58pm

dm89

This is a conveyancing Contact matter, your solicitor is the best person to deal with this.

DM89 · 17-04-2022 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118933286#Comment_118933286

Thank you for the reply, yeah we are going to leave it with the solicitor. Just really worried how it is all going as we had been looking for over a year for our first home and had such bad luck on countless occasions.

skinny90 · 11-05-2022 11:43am

Hi All

After speaking to a friends (an engineer and an architect ) They have advised on us to set up a preplanning meeting with the co council.

The site was refused outline permission based on the site entrance and position of the septic tank back in 2005.

We are not fully sure on the designs swelling size.

However for a meeting we need to provide dwelling details.

I am just wondering how accurate these need to be?

The purpose of the preplanning meeting is to see what we need to have in order with planning to get it accepted

Any help would be appreciated

muffler · 11-05-2022 12:59pm

The planners will be looking first of all to see what style of house you are proposing ie. bungalow, dormer, 2 storey etc. They may/may not get into specific detailing re aesthetics and compliance with ant good house design elements they have. In my local council area a couple of photos of a similar style house would probably suffice but the norm would be to either have a sketch prepared by your architect or you could simply look up some plans online and find one thats close to what you are after and screenshot that.

mal_1 · 21-05-2022 5:23pm

Hi

I have a query on a commercial office building.

The top floor of a building, was converted from an office to an apartment with planning about 25 years ago.

can it be converted back to office without going for planning, my thinking is it can, (similar to where a commercial could revert back to a house without planning, however you may had to apply to planning to remove rates) but is there anything in the more recent planning acts which has changed that regarding removal of a residential unit.

Thanks in advance.

Sean123456789 · 18-07-2022 7:46pm

Hi Everyone

Respecting certain parameters, you can build a garage of less than 25 sq m without planning permission; and you can build an extension of less than 40 sq m without planning permission. But can you do both? I assume you can, but don't want to go ahead without checking. Any information would be much appreciated

thanks

muffler · 18-07-2022 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355652#Comment_119355652

You can build both subject to the usual conditions.

Sean123456789 · 18-07-2022 10:10pm

Thank you

D_M_A · 30-08-2022 4:52pm

Hi all,

I have a query regarding exempted development. I'm about to apply for PP to knock an existing detached garage (built by previous owners, and no evidence of planning) to the rear of my property, to rebuild it with a larger footprint.

A year ago I built a single storey rear extension which (combined with the existing garage) fell under the exempted development rules, i.e. <40m2

The larger garage will now push the combined additions beyond the 40m2 limit. Am I required to apply for PP for the shed and Retention Permission for the single storey extension? Or will it suffice to just apply for PP for the shed seeing as it is the offender?

Appreciate any help, phone lines in LA are down.

muffler · 30-08-2022 5:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543563#Comment_119543563

The exemptions allow for a max. of 40m2 extension to a house and a max. of 25m2 detached domestic garage/store subject to certain conditions. There is no adding or combining the respective floor areas as they are 2 separate structures.

sydthebeat · 30-08-2022 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543563#Comment_119543563

the extension and shed are different classes of development, therefore the combined areas does not effect the exempt nature of each

you do not need to apply for retention for the extension now.

as you need permission for the shed, just be careful that you are retaining enough private amenity space (rear garden) on the site

D_M_A · 01-09-2022 11:41am

Thank you both, that's cleared that up. I didn't realise they were treated separately. The remaining rear garden will be approx 40m2 so shouldn't be any issues in that respect.

sydthebeat · 01-09-2022 12:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553197#Comment_119553197

youre welcome

DMAs, good band by the way !!!

BamesJond · 21-10-2022 1:11pm

Can anyone provide some insights on this?

I've got an RFI on my current septic tank setup for renovations - I was hoping this would be pretty easy to get in play but so far I've contacted multiple companies and only one has actually confirmed they're even able to perform the works who I'm still in touch with.

Can anyone let me know of any companies in the Laois/Kildare/Carlow area that might be able to assist?

There are further steps to undertake if the septic tank is not deemed to be up to spec but I'm just trying to get as much info as possible from anyone else who may have gone through something similar!

muffler · 21-10-2022 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774763#Comment_119774763

Get an independent site assessor to deal with the issue. Most Co Councils have an approved list of assessors so ring your local planning office and ask there. Alternatively you could have look at online applications involving septic tanks and see who carried out the site assessments.

sydthebeat · 21-10-2022 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119774763#Comment_119774763

pm sent

BamesJond · 21-10-2022 2:38pm

I wasn't aware site assessors were the correct people to perform a septic tank test. I rang the CC and they couldn't provide me any details but I'll do some further investigation.

Manintheland · 22-11-2022 5:46pm

Applying for retention in a zone of notification (section 12)

hi we took procession of a property from my wife's late father to which there was an extension built at the rear of the property which had become derelict walls had rotten due to the roof failing and no being repaired we have pictures to prove this

so had to be demolished re-rebuilt the extension using the same foundation but when up to the second storey to include a bathroom upstairs which we are mirroring what a neighbour has done without planning. (the neighbour's Extention is actually higher than ours)

as the extension is within the 40m2 we did not seek planning but we have received a warning letter from the local authority regarding the height and closeness to boundary walls (terraced house) and that the work has been carried out near a National monument (which is directly behind the house but outside of or boundary) so we have to engage with the NMS and seek retention for the extension.

we have engaged in communication with the local authority officer and he has suggested that it's merely a box-ticking exercise.

we are arranging for an engineer and architect to draw up plans but I wondering if anyone has gone through something similar before and if they ran into much trouble dealing with the NMS and the local authority?

ArtieBucco · 09-12-2022 7:53pm

Hi All,

Was wondering if I could get some feedback regarding an issue I am having with regards to Planning?

Basically I am helping my neighbour draw up plans for an extension to a semi-d in a rural area. The front of the house faces south, the rear faces north, side elevation to the east which has a family member in the shared garden and west elevation is the other semi-d bungalow

The proposal is to build a flat roof single storey extension to the rear linking to a storey and a half. The garden is quite narrow. I have strategically placed all the windows to face the rear garden on the ground floor, but on the first floor, i have two bedrooms, facing the rear garden. For fire escape i proposed two windows again facing the rear garden. The planner has mentioned to me to take extra precautions that no windows face neighbouring properties, would this mean that the two First floor windows would be not permitted? Obviously when up in the bedrooms you can look out the garden and you can see into the neighbouring gardens

Thanks all.

muffler · 09-12-2022 9:31pm

If Im reading that correctly I think what the planner is indicating is you cant have windows on the East or West facing walls at first floor level. Facing North is probably okay but if not by any chance can you use Velux? Is the roof sloped in that direction?

ArtieBucco · 09-12-2022 11:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119977039#Comment_119977039

Thank you muffler for the reply. I would hope to think so that is what the planner is indicating. Yes I can place rooflights on the north elevation as the extension roof runs parallel with the existing. I think I will go with the rooflight option to be safe.

Thank you

Thargor · 15-12-2022 4:33pm

Hi, Im sale agreed on a semi-detached in an estate, built in the 1970s. My surveyor just told me that the back extension is fine but the small bathroom/utility room extension at the side will require planning as its (barely) visible from the road. I can see from 2009 Streetview that it is more than 7 years old. Im a cash buyer so wont affect a mortgage but its still making me nervous for selling in future.

Is retention easy to get on this kind of thing? Does retention get refused often? In Limerick if that makes any difference.

muffler · 15-12-2022 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000322#Comment_120000322

For something small like that there wouldn't (generally) be a problem. If left unauthorised it would be an issue in any future sale.

sydthebeat · 15-12-2022 6:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000322#Comment_120000322

in general a single storey side / rear extension isnt usually a planning issue (once its built away from the boundary, isnt unnecessarily high, loads of rear garden space retained etc)

Thargor · 15-12-2022 8:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000626#Comment_120000626

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000761#Comment_120000761

Oh wow really? Thats actually a major relief thanks, is retention much of an expense/hassle when I do get around to it?

EDIT: Actually Im going to PM you both the listing, would you mind taking a second look please?

sydthebeat · 15-12-2022 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001157#Comment_120001157

im obviously not giving you any guarantees here, just experience based opinion.

and yes ill take a look for you.

Thargor · 15-12-2022 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001177#Comment_120001177

Thanks PM sent there.

muffler · 15-12-2022 11:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001177#Comment_120001177

Ditto and done.

bemak · 19-12-2022 5:28pm

[deleted]

MrBumBum · 23-01-2023 10:16pm

I bought a house 5 years ago. When going about buying it my solicitor found there was an issue where the skylights upstairs needed to be 20cm or so lower so as to provide an escape route.

The seller applied for (and got) retention planning for it but didn't carry out the work. We only found that out on closing day and wanted to push on with the purchase so left it. We didnt carry out the work either and now want to sell.

What way does this leave us fixed? Can we sell it on the open market?

Can we sell upstairs as storage?

Do we HAVE to carry out the work?

Is there an expiry on retention where work has to be carried out?

A lot of question, thanks in advance for any replies.

muffler · 24-01-2023 2:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120148200#Comment_120148200

I dont understand this. How could someone apply for retention permission and then not do the works? Was the application for permission to install the rooflights or permission to retain and then move them? Need clarity on this aspect.

In any event you are pretty much in the same position as the vendor was 5 years ago

MrBumBum · 24-01-2023 10:36am

He didn't want the cost of carrying out the work but never told us that, we were under the impression the work was done.

Permission to lower them enough to provide an escape route.

DOCARCH · 24-01-2023 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149501#Comment_120149501

You could ignore the permission and build a step under the Velux?

Edit: Having suggested the above, to be compliant, the bottom/cill of the Velux needs to be no greater than 1700mm from the edge of the roof (basically the gutter) for fire escape/rescue. The internal height can be overcome by adding a step.

MrBumBum · 24-01-2023 6:49pm

None of them are within 1700mm, one in particular is probably closer to 3500mm

DOCARCH · 24-01-2023 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120152154#Comment_120152154

If they were lowered, as per the permission granted, would they be?

If this in relation to an attic conversion? A single room or a number of rooms?

muffler · 24-01-2023 7:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120152154#Comment_120152154

If its that distance from the eaves then a single internal step will not work - assuming its a fairly average roof.

I still havent got clarity on what type of permission was granted and for what? If a rooflight is 3.50m from the eaves then moving it by 200mm will have no effect from a fire escape point of view, again assuming a standard sized pitched roof.

MrBumBum · 25-01-2023 10:16am

It's 3 skylights in 2 rooms.

a step would be no use as they are still not within the 1700mm from the eaves.

I didn’t submit the planning , I just read it afterwards. It says they need to be lowered.

the thread seems to be getting sidetracked a bit, my original questions were -

Can we sell it on the open market?

Can we sell upstairs as storage?

Do we HAVE to carry out the work?

Is there an expiry on retention where work has to be carried out?

Yes, the planning is to lower them so as to provide an escape route, I didn't submit the planning , I just read it afterwards. It just says they need to be lowered.

A step is no good, still need to be within 1700mm from the eave.

The thread is getting sidetracked a bit, my original questions.

What way does this leave us fixed? Can we sell it on the open market?

Can we sell upstairs as storage?

Is there an expiry on retention where work hase carried out?

bemak · 09-03-2023 2:27pm

My understanding is you will be able to sell it as is if the room is identified as a storage room only and not an additional bedroom or habitable space. A lot of converted attics don't meet the minimum floor-to-ceiling requirement for habitable spaces anyway which means that they still need to be called up as storage even if they had adequate means of escape.

Schweizer · 11-03-2023 12:54am

Hi,

I am currently contemplating the pro's and con's of submitting a complaint to the planning enforcement section of my local council regarding an unauthorised development which has just commenced in my locality.

Not sure if this is universal but my local council offers the option to do this confidentially. This being Ireland and not wanting to get in the bad books with neighbours, I am wondering if anyone would know if there is a limit to it being confidential? Could a person uncover who made the complaint through a freedom of information (foi) request? If the enforcement action ended up in a court case could I be called to give evidence?

Thanks in advance.

DOCARCH · 16-03-2023 6:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120343403#Comment_120343403

As far as I aware, if copies of complaints to planning enforcement are sought under FOI, names/details of complainants are redacted, so it is a confidential process.

hkjohn · 14-04-2023 1:59pm

if the local council issues someone with an enforcement order for an illegal structure and that someone then loses a retention appeal:

what steps will the council take to make them remove the structure? (FWIW, the someone in this case declined to submit a Bord na Pleanala appeal)
how long will it take the council to ensure the builder/owner in question obeys the enforcement order?

Poor Uncle Tom · 05-06-2023 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120477242#Comment_120477242

I have found that it varies from Local Authority to Local Authority, a lot of them don't have the stomach for chasing this stuff. I'm currently pushing one for a client and it's a nightmare with changing staff, new enforcement officers not knowing the legislation or not willing to enforce it.

All these items should be dealt with smartly, 14 days for written replies, 28 days for actions, etc., Section 34 of the Act is the part yourself or your Agent should be studying. I'm lazing on a deck with a nice cold pint right now, soaking up the rays, and I'm not going deeper into it.

Just to note, they can't lose and appeal, if they don't make an appeal. They can always modify their retention application and submit again, however a local authority can go ahead and take a case anyway, but like I said earlier, LA'S lack stomach for enforcement.

hkjohn · 06-06-2023 9:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120679426#Comment_120679426

Thanks for that, PUT. Very insatructive and helpful.

One small question - which act are you talking about?

Thanks for your help and enjoy your holiday!

Poor Uncle Tom · 06-06-2023 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681315#Comment_120681315

Planning and Development Act.

hkjohn · 07-06-2023 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684018#Comment_120684018

Thanks, PUT

chooseusername · 10-06-2023 8:53am

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/south-dublin-planning-saga-lawyer-leaves-top-firm-over-225k-demand/a1299017362.html

Quote from the article above;

"The payment demand lifted the lid on the practice of “go-away money” – payments for dropping objections to planning in the housing crisis."

I know developers offering "Go Away Money" is not uncommon, but residents asking for it to not object? Is this a thing?

CiboC · 10-06-2023 7:32pm

Apologies for this, it's a very long and old thread so I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere but I've searched and couldn't see a direct answer.

Garden rooms and the definition of 'human habitation'....

We are considering a garden room instead of an extension. the purpose would be primarily 'hang out' space for the kids as they are getting into teenage years and don't want to be in the same room as their deeply uncool parents, particularly when their mates are over, there would not be any intention of using it for sleeping space or extra bedroom space.

We are also considering getting a sauna put into it which really would only be feasible if we can put a shower in. Does a shower or bathroom make it 'habitable' under the regulations as they are written?

muffler · 10-06-2023 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698997#Comment_120698997

No, not as I understand the exemptions. If its incidental to the enjoyment of the parent dwelling then the use as you described would be fine. But just watch out for the other conditions that render it exempt i.e. floor area, height, retained open space etc

sydthebeat · 12-06-2023 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699188#Comment_120699188

agreed

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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