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Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Tim_from_Trim


    Apologies if this is in the wrong forum or place. I can move it if need be. Im trying to help my sister build a small cabin - Ideally we want to install a prefab log cabin on her property so she can airbnb it to make some income. Im a contractor in the states and am used to permits, construction over here but have never built a house in ireland. The location of the house is in Donegal in the middle of nowehere and looking at the land, I think you could easily fit 3 decent size cabins there. I do know that it is not in a SAC (Special Area of Conservation) but right beside it. I can provide any information anyone requires. Can you apply for planning permission yourself?

    Is there a sq footage number if under you do not need planning permission

    Does a structure need to be a certain distance from a road?

    Are there inspections plumbing electrical, foundation, nearly every step of the way?

    Any advice is really appreciated. 

    Thank you,

    Tim




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    A few questions in there. Yes you can apply for planning yourself. For living accommodation there are no exemptions from planning apart from extending an existing house subject to conditions. There is a min. distance of 11 metres for building on local roads. This distance increses with an increase in the road classification.

    2 big problems you have though. The proximity of a SAC could be an issue but a lot depends on the nature and extent of the proposed development. The biggest problem is "cabins". They are generally frowned upon but location may be a help. Building to let isnt really something the planners will approve. So you are probably better contacting a local planning agent before you invest too much in this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Tim_from_Trim


    Hi Muffler,

    Thank you for the quick reply. I appreciate it. I have follow up questions. So how does someone build a house if they want it more than 11 meters from the road? I suppose where my sister is planning is more than 11 meters for sure. Would we have to create a driveway up to the cabin or structure?

    So if we built a house for me to live in when I return to ireland - this would sound better?

    Tim



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    So is this in a rural area? Sorry, but if so the min. building line is 15m from the centre line of the road and not 11 as I previously stated although established building lines are accepted at times.. I cant say for sure but a cabin type structure is very unlikely to get passed. On top of that the site doesn't look very big.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 127 ✭✭FJMC


    There are various planning policies that will apply with restrictions on holiday accommodation and new dwellings subject to location, etc.

    You will need to do a lot of background reading or speak to an architect, engineer, planner, etc. on your specific site and specific proposals.

    Your equivalent building permit functions are effectively provided by an architect, engineer, or surveyor - with submission to your local Building Control, and in all likelihood, inspecting the works at appropriate stages, ensuring compliance with building regulations and providing certification - but a lot of hurdles to overcome before you are anywhere near that stage in the process.

    F



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  • Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Lefty2Guns


    Planning Question.

    What are your options regarding protesting/rejecting against a planning application that has exceeded the 5 week time frame.

    The landowner pulled a fast one as far as I'm concerned. There had been a planning application on the wall of the property for over 5 years, this was swapped out either late at night or early morning with a new planning application and the residents in the area only noticed it over the last few days. The time frame has expired by about 4 weeks.

    The landowner is trying to build a 4 story block of apartments between neighboring 2 story houses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    You can't make a submission now and if a decision had been made on the application you can't appeal it either. Is there any way you can prove that the old site notice was never removed after the previous application had been dealt with?



  • Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Lefty2Guns


    No, unfortunately not. It was 100% done this way, one of the neighbors only recently bought a house right beside the site and the apartment block will clearly block out sunshine aswell as the balcony's overlooking his back garden.

    There has been some objections from the planning authority so the project has not been given the green light.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    You will have to rely on the other objections and the thoroughness of the planners when they assess the application.



  • Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Lefty2Guns


    Thats the thing. Nobody on the road was aware that the Planning Application was updated from what had sat there for 5+ years or so.

    I have been onto An Bord Planela and they have sent me some documents and it looks like there may be a window of opportunity when permission is granted, its a 4 week window to appeal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Yes, but you can only appeal to ABP if you had a valid submission lodged with the planning authority.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,972 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    the ONLY way now you have to appeal is to apply to ABP for 'leave to appeal' after the decision is made, but teh conditions under which they will grant this are very very strict.

    Leave to appeal is a process where, if you are a person with an interest in adjoining land, you can ask the Board to give you permission to make an appeal when all of the four following reasons apply:

    1. You did not make a submission to the planning authority on a planning application.
    2. The planning authority has granted permission to that planning application. In the grant of permission, the planning authority has attached a condition or conditions that will change part of the proposed development from what was originally proposed in the planning application.
    3. Due to the condition or conditions now attached to the grant of permission, the proposed development will impact land which:
      1. you have an interest in; and
      2. is adjoining (next to or joined with) the proposed development site
    4. The impact is that it may:
      1. affect your enjoyment of the land you have an interest in, or
      2. reduce the value of the land you have an interest in, or
      3. both affect your enjoyment of the land and reduce its value.


    The Board can only grant the Leave to Appeal application where you have shown all of the four things above.

    A large number of Leave to Appeal applications fail because the person applying for leave to appeal cannot show that they meet all the requirements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭rayjdav


    If the application has not been determined by the LA, and that at FI stage they request what is deemed to be Significant Further Information, once the reply has gone in you can then submit an observation within a 2 week period, as stated in the readvertised notices, on payment of the €20 fee. This is the best chance to get on board the system as Leave to Appeal is very hard to tick all the above boxes and can be very expensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37 GoingLinux



    Does anyone in the Fingal County Council area know from recent experience how much time elapse between a person reporting unauthorized development and the issuing of a first warning letter please? Would it be weeks, months,a year etc?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 D_M_A


    Hi all, would anybody have a relatively up to date idea of the expected wait time for a pre-planning meeting with Dublin City Council once applied for?

    Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 3 timbucktwo1988


    Hi , this is a strange one , but my neighbour applied for planning permission in his wife's name to build a house in the field next door which they own. The house has started and it is common knowledge that the couple sold the site to a man who isn't from the area for cash and their plan is to sign it over to him when the house is built. Is this aloud ? I did not want to object as I only heard this information after planning was granted but the person he is selling it to is bad news and has been in prison for SA a member of his family. Any advice appreciated as I have young kids and I am a little uncomfortable about the idea of him living beside us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Not that strange. Go online and check the conditions attached to the planning permission and if it's in a rural location there should be an occupancy clause which restricts or limits the type of people who can reside there eg. People from the rural area, people with work connections to the area etc etc. If anyone other than the person who was granted permission or anyone who would be entitled to benefit from a permission in their own right occupies the house then there is a breach of said permission. If that were the case you would be entitled to report the matter to the enforcement section of the planning dept. Just make sure you have all your facts correct before going down that road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3 timbucktwo1988


    Thank you for your reply. This is on the online application as conditions. Does this mean I could still object even tho the block work is completed on the house



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    You can't object to the actual planning application now but you can report any non compliance to the council. But at this stage you only have hearsay to go on so you will have to wait and see who occupies the house when completed. Even then you would have to show evidence that the occupier has no roots or connection to the area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,666 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    How does one replace all building plans, that a builder took, and won't give back



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Who prepared the plans? Did they prepare them for you? And, why won't builder give them back?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,666 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Architect prepared them, no link to builder whatsoever. I have no idea why he won't give hem back, everyday for the last 6 months he is giving them back, '' they're in the post'' '' I'll drop them to you tomorrow'' '' I'll leave them in the local Petrol Station for you to pickup'' bla bla bla, going on 6-7 months now.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Can you not ask the architect for a copy, or pdfs of drawings, so you can get a replacement set of drawings printed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The architect should send you a copy without issue. I wouldn’t bother with the builder. I doubt he still has them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,666 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Hmmm I dunno. Would he have them, it's a commercial type building with associated ground works, interceptor tank etc , not a home. I'll have to ask, but I hate asking as I should not have too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    If the architect did the drawings. He would have them. I’m not sure why you think he might not.

    For clarity, you're the owner and hired the architect?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,666 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Yep, he should never have got the plans, long story short, it was a Nephew who gave them as it was a case of '' oh I know someone who could do this '' , he came out to site, seemed to be a decent guy, who was suppose to get back with a quote and plans in a week, and I've never seen him since, and to top it off Nephew doesn't even know his last name or business details, all I have is a number, and he won't answer calls, but gets back via messages, and it's always , tomorrow that he's drop quote and plans, going on 6 months or more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,666 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Unless you owe money to the architect there wouldn't be any problem in getting another couple of sets. You might be charged a fee quid for the copies of they have to print them but getting a pdf should be free.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,805 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Don't think it's possible to set a general rule. It would all depend on the nature of the case, what kind of inspections they might have to do, the complexity or otherwise of the breach - whether legal advice is required.

    If it's more than a couple of months, you could certainly chase them up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Keep_Her_Lit


    Planning permission for large steel shed

    I’m looking to buy a rural property soon and would like to have a large shed on site for personal use (tinkering with cars, purely on a DIY basis). Ideally, it would have the height to allow installation of a garage lift. An example is shown below, with dimensions 47ft x 30ft x 14ft (14m x 9m x 4.3m, floor area 126m2), though I wouldn’t necessarily need it that long. 

    What are my prospects of getting planning permission for such a structure? I woud be hoping to place this on a site of 0.5 to 1.0 acre. Would it help my chances if it was not visible from the public road and was not directly bordering any neighbouring residential site? 

    Thanks for any feedback. 



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,972 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    you have to show why you need something that size.

    if you just "tinker" with cars youll need to show where the cars come from and where they go to. they will be suspicious of you doing commercial mechanical works for which you wont get permission. So youll need to prove why you need the space for personal use.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,434 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I wouldn't see a stand alone shed on any size of a site getting permission for personal / domestic use. It would possibly be more acceptable if built behind a house. The planners would consider this as commercial development and that gets real awkward then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Keep_Her_Lit


    Thanks for the replies on this, much appreciated. Sounds like I'd be better off keeping my eye out for a property that already has a decent sized shed or garage in situ. I've seen a few.

    FWIW, when I said "tinkering with cars, purely on a DIY basis", that's exactly what I meant. I own a couple of older cars, not worth a whole lot, one of which is in need of restoration. I've worked on cars outdoors for years and I'm sick of getting rained on! It's a hobby that needs a bit of indoor space if you're going to do it with any level of comfort.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭WallysWorld


    Has anyone here ever applied for permission for a small floating dock? We have a property that is on the shores of a lake on the Shannon. I'd like to put in one of those modular floating docks, about 5m X 1.5m and I'm not sure who to go about looking for permission from. Is it Waterways Ireland or would it be the local planning authority? It wouldn't involve any construction really, just a couple of anchor points on the shore which would be removable if needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭WallysWorld


    I checked their website and must have missed that, thanks. Requires planning permission from the local authority it seems.

    Edit: if anyone has successfully applied for permission for something like this I'd love to have a chat. Reply here or dm me. Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Why don’t engineers certify the wastewater treatment systems- septic tanks, pumps, percolation fields – that they build?

    Kerry County Council requires certification of newly built wastewater treatment systems by “A suitably qualified person with indemnity insurance,” such as an engineer. Once such a certification letter has been written, it is included in the planning permission for the wastewater treatment system.


    Within a 5 minute walk of our house, there are three, recently built, septic systems. Not one such system has a certification letter from the engineer who designed the system, applied for planning permission and oversaw the construction. At least one of these engineers did write such a certification letter for a wastewater project and is therefore clearly qualified. Kerry County Council requires this certification to be submitted within 4 weeks of completion of the wastewater system. At least 2 of those systems are now in excess of 5 years old.


    Without exception, all the engineers have indemnity insurance.
    This is a big problem if you want planning permission for anything, because the County Council will require the certification prior to granting permission.

    Thanks.

    Post edited by Igotadose on


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,972 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    there are specific engineers out there who can certify these systems. Essentially those who are qualified through the FETAC course (or similar approved)

    Just because an engineer is indemnified does not make them suitable to certify these systems. the person who designs the system should be the one who certifies it. Just because an engineer is indemnified, that doesnt make them automatically qualifed to sign off on these systems.

    Im also not sure what you mean by the engineer who "builds the system".

    Are you talking about the contractor who physically installs it, or the manufacturer who builds the treatment system product? neither of those are the "suitably qualified persons" who can sign off the design and installation.

    on the 3 incidents you are referring to:

    1. how do you know they are not certified?
    2. certification is required as part of the planning conditions and you have 5 years to comply
    3. if this condition hasn't been complied with, it may (and probably will) lead to problems should certification of the dwelling be required.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Engineers do not build treatment systems. They also design them. Those Engineers also certify specific treatment systems.

    It is a specific discipline of engineering. Not something a random “engineer” doing planning permission does.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Where would you find such a specialized engineer? @sydthebeat mentioned FETAC but I don't see any way to locate an engineer with the necessary qualifications. Google hasn't been useful.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,972 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    check the online planning portal for your local authority, and check up recently build houses in the countryside.

    each one should have an EPA report with the details of who compiled it. They would be the best bet to reach out to first of all.

    https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2024-05/list-of-site-assessors-10-05-2024.pdf

    theres a few from kerry on this list



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Thanks. Kerry County doesn't really have a planning portal - it takes you to a page saying you must submit 4 copies of your request on paper. I can't find anything on EPA reports for houses. Limerick's much better organized.

    I've looked at what I can for the neighbours, nothing about an EPA report though I only have online access to planning documents.

    Edit: I did find something that claims to be the list of assessors for Kerry, which was published in 2012, and includes 2 of the engineers who claim to not do assessment work. So, I'm dubious of whether these EPA reports actually happen out here at all.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,972 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.eplanning.ie/KerryCC/searchtypes

    kerry co co planning portal. its probably what you are already looking at, just calling it another name.

    so for example ive looked that the most recent application on the "weekly list" to find an application with a wasterwater treatment system, and ive found application 24/60266

    within that i can see the site suitability assessment report

    and the contact details of the guy who produced the report is on it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,087 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Yes, know that site. No 'certification of wastewater systems' reports for any of the neighbours, and in fact I took a look at the weekly list, they've approved 1 site conditionally, and asked for a certification of the wastewater systems, i.e., the latest requests don't get them done, either.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,972 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    im not sure why youve come back to this?

    i dealt with that in my first response post.

    can you pm me one of the planning reference number to one of these "neighbour" builds please



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I think that last line is the issue. The council do not look for certification before granting permission. The suitability report is submitted with the application. The certification is submitted after it has been built. You can’t certify something something pre-grant of permission if it hasn’t been built.



  • Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭Dr Devious


    How close does planning permission usually allow for a pedestrian, e scooter etc walkway WHEN ITS BESIDE a persons driveway which is at an angle, which makes it awkward to enter and exit. Its a new planning application for numerous houses.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,972 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    not sure what you mean.

    can you show us a sketch?

    any driveway should be able to allow the parking of a car completely off the public pathway, therefore in practise front boundaries are usually a min of 6 meters from the front of a house, where on site parking is provided to the front

    when on street parking is provided, that a different matter



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