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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,426 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    'The Ukranians' are not exporting weapons. The weapons are Serbian.

    Did you even read the article you linked to?

    "The Antonov An-12 light aircraft, which was transporting the weapons from Serbia to Bangladesh, had eight Ukrainian crew members onboard."

    Ukranian Antonov aircraft carry all kinds of cargo all over the world.


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    ^^Was about to say the same. That is the information given about the weapons' origin in the Daily Mail article as well, so perhaps poster did not read it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Mr Zelensky said he was firing Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova and security chief Ivan Bakanov amid a high number of cases of suspected treason by Ukrainian law enforcement officials.

    Are these the European values Ukraine have shown that Ursula keeps banging on about?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Having standards in office and holding people accountable? Yes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,355 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    "Mr Zelensky said over 650 cases of suspected treason and aiding and abetting Russia by Ukrainian security officials are currently being investigated, including 60 cases of officials who have remained in territories occupied by Russia and are working against Ukraine."

    Pussy thinks Zelensky should turn a blind eye to that kind of thing, like a good little Russian!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    So it wouldn't matter if everyone was corrupt then aside from the leader? That would mean you're not corrupt and your country has great values?

    That would be a bit like someone taking over Simeone at Atletico Madrid saying they need to do less play acting and then everyone immediately saying what a fair team they are. Values are based on actions and results, not by saying what your ideals are.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You appear to have missed the bit where they were fired. Its called making progress.

    Your philosophy in life appears to be if a country isn't perfect (which is all of them) then they should be abandoned by everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Who hired them?

    No, that's not my philosophy at all.

    I do have a problem with a knowingly massive corrupt country being talked about as if they're the perfect country, just because Ursula wants her paws on their resources.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,426 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The Russians apparently. In an attempt to subvert Ukraines sovereign choice to embark on path to joining the EU.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    @Pussyhands

    No one here or in the EU commission afaik ever said Ukraine is perfect.

    Your conspiracy theory about "Ursula" the supervillian monologuing her plans to you to benefit somehow from Ukraine's resources is kind of pathetic and offensive. 1/10 for that one. 🤡

    The Russian military is, as we write, invading and looting Ukraine and trying to annex it in the name of Tsar Putin, and that is not a conspiracy theory dreamed up by an edgy investor-bro poster on an anonymous message board.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Then the problem exists entirely in your head, as no one is talking about them as, or considers them to be a "perfect country"

    This is a trope constantly spouted by people who want to performatively dismiss the idea to pretend like they are somehow seeing through the propaganda or some other garbage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    Whatever the reasons the optics aren't good. Sacking your Head of Security and Prosecutor General on the same day in the middle of a war doesn't inspire confidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,610 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Having the head of your security service be compromised by the Russians is not a good look regardless - we already have enough compromised individuals in the EU member states, Ukraine joining the EU could add a whole lot more



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Quite the opposite. It inspires huge confidence that Ukraine is a changed country and that corruption and Russian influence will not be tolerated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,355 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    If you have hard evidence that they are a hindrance to your war effort, then surely sacking them would inspire confidence.

    And no doubt your retort will be "why didn't they sack them sooner", they likely had to follow due process and be fully justified in doing so. Had they been sacked sooner, I'm sure you'd be raising issues with that too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,537 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    Send them to the front line, every one else will work harder then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,426 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    How many Russian generals, intelligence heads have been sacked, or just simply disappeared?

    Did that inspire your confidence?

    Pretty obvious how you only ever care about one set of optics.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,986 ✭✭✭ambro25


    Well, on the topic of Russian people getting disappeared…here’s one that few ever mention anywhere (I do every now and then, since Feb.27 when these started):

    Latest one:

    All a bit Night of the Long Knives-y 😏



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    I wouldn't know apart from Dvornikov and that's not been confirmed. And neither do you. The Russians keep that stuff close to their chest. But the people Zelensky did sack are quite pivotal in the state.

    If Biden were to sack both the head of the CIA and the Attorney General on the same day for treason you would be worried about the governments stability and cohesion wouldn't you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭oceanman


    and how exactly do you propose the 24 exert this massive pressure? Germany and France between them run the EU.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,426 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yeah of course you wouldnt know. You never do when it comes to Russian troubles setbacks atrocities or war crimes. Yet an expert on Ukraines. Utterly predictable right on cue echoing Russian propaganda mouthpieces.

    See no evil hear no evil eh.

    https://www.newsweek.com/putin-fires-five-generals-russia-military-failures-ukraine-continue-1712053

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen



    "Unlike most large American magazines, Newsweek has not used fact-checkers since 1996."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,426 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That doesnt make it untrue. You cant even deny it.

    The reports are not just on Newsweek. Washington Times and more.

    How about googling it and getting some non approved by the Kremlin information.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen



    "Washington Times". Class. Couldn't have described Bidens Press Department any more accurately if I tried.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,426 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The Washington Times is Republican leaning. I think you are viewing independent news outlets in the West through the prism of how they would operate in the gangster dictatorship of Russia.

    You demonstrate once again you are unable to deny the information. Just try to shotgun discredit the source without realising it just demonstrates how little you know.

    And that you really have no idea of the operation of a free press in a free society where major news outlets can have different outlooks and publicly oppose and criticise those in power. Unlike Russia.

    Here is The Times of London:

    "Sergey Beseda, head of the FSB’s foreign intelligence branch, was arrested with Anatoly Bolyukh" ... and latest reports put him in Lefortovo prison.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭bobowen


    I honestly thought you were combining the NY Times and the Washington Post into a convenient phrase.

    Never heard of the Washington Times until you mentioned it. When I looked into it I discovered that its run by the Unification Church.

    AKA The Moonies.

    You are quoting the Moonies now it seems. And I really don't know how to respond to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,426 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Again no attempt made to deny the reports or that of The Times.

    Where is intelligence chief Sergey Beseda?

    Where are these officers?

    "Those fired included Major General of Police Vasily Kukushkin, who was head of the Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for the Vladimir region; Major General Alexander Laas, deputy head of the Main Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for the Altai Territory and Major General Andrey Lipilin, head of the Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for the Yaroslavl Region."

    Where are these officers?

    "The reports of the most recent firings come after Putin reportedly dismissed other senior officials last month. On May 19, the U.K. Ministry of Defense reported that Putin had fired two senior commanders - Lieutenant General Serhiy Kisel, who had commanded the 1st Guards Tank Army, and Vice Admiral Igor Osipov of the Black Sea Fleet. Osipov was reportedly fired following the sinking of the Russian flagship Moskva, which was a major embarrassment to the Russians but considered a significant victory by the Ukrainians."

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mod note:

    Bobowen banned for 2 days. Either engage constructively with other posters or dont comment



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    No, they don't. You're essentially saying the EU isn't a confederation of 27 states but some sort of colony of France and Germany. Which is a Europhobic lie. Erme where did I hear that... Brexitshítters "campaign" founded/aided by Kremlin perhaps...

    Anyway France is not exactly on the side of Germany this time in this case. It's Germany + Italy combo here vs everyone else with Central, Eastern, Baltic and Nordic being the most hard-line (except for Hungary).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Interesting analysis of "Russian volunteer battalions":

    Red Army running out of manpower (in line with causalty reports) but Putin is afraid of mobilization which would probably cause riots and overthrow him so he's paying €3k per month for mercenaries recruited all over Eurasia.

    This recruitment effort will likely be expensive if it comes close to meeting its targets. It appears that the Russian Ministry of Defense will pay the volunteers’ salaries while the “federal subjects” will pay their enlistment bonuses. Salaries generally start at roughly $3,000 per month per soldier or about $1.2 million per month per 400-man unit. Enlistment bonuses offered by at least some units appear to be roughly a month’s salary. If the effort generates 85 battalions each of 400 men it would bring an additional 34,000 volunteers into the fight at the cost of about $102 million per month in salary alone. Considering that the 30 days of training the volunteers will receive before entering combat will not produce combat-ready soldiers, that price is very high. The volunteers will receive veteran status and benefits if they serve in Ukraine, moreover, in addition to their salaries and bonuses, a commitment that will add to the Russian Federation budget for decades.



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