Is it time to join Nato

xxxxxxl · 17-07-2022 01:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347754#Comment_119347754

They are more interested in what the Americans are doing in Shannon tbh. The problem with Antagonising a Friendly neighbour is they may not come to Irelands aid In the Future. I mean MM already blamed them for the Ukrainians housing situation. They could say well Ireland is in the EU Not NATO so it's Not a NATO problem. Careful what you wish for.

17-07-2022 01:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347762#Comment_119347762

Americans?

Aren't they in like ... nato or something? Like UK are.

Nato problem. Nato solution.

And we owe what to who exactly?

Ehhh, ... thanks UK for protecting Nato troops, or something.

xxxxxxl · 17-07-2022 02:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347775#Comment_119347775

Ireland is in the EU not NATO, An attack on Ireland would not lead to a NATO attack immediately as Ireland is not a member. Basic stuff. It's an Attack on the EU. Which has members in NATO. As there is no EU army it would be then Upto Member States to decide or even partition the UN or NATO to Intervene. It's not like attacking an EU country that is in NATO hence Russia has not done that. By alienating the closest ally and Nuclear power With an Advanced Military. We leave our selves out in the cold if a situation arrives. Are we even under the UK Nuclear Umbrella Or Frances ? Ireland is now in Russia's gaze due to intervention in Ukraine. They were laughing sinking the UK and Ireland with Nukes on tv.

17-07-2022 02:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347790#Comment_119347790

Yeah, basic stuff, and a complete non-sequitur.

Tell me why any Irish person should be expected to give even the tiniest, emptiest, trace of a thank you for nato protecting its own interests in Irish airspace.

Here comes a Russian bomber to test nato's response times. And here comes a nato jet to respond to Russia's gesture. You're welcome Ireland.

I think some people really aren't grasping the concept that undoing a negative situation you caused in the first place is not a cause for gratitude. Please tell me you get this.

When I spill wine on your shirt and get you a new shirt ... you aren't expected to be grateful. When I cause Russian bombers to enter your airspace, and then send jets to chase them away, you aren't expected to be grateful. (Unless I'm a monkey-browed sun reader).

Do you understand. -1 +1 is not to my benefit. You don't get a thank you for that. Nato.

"Ireland is now in Russia's gaze due to intervention in Ukraine."

We're as irrelevant as ever. Russia wouldn't give a donkeys about us even if they could invade, and by the looks of it they probably couldn't. Not without some large scale accident and rescue mission.

xxxxxxl · 17-07-2022 05:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347816#Comment_119347816

Then why does Russia have it's largest embassy outside the USA in Ireland. We don't seem that irrelevant to them.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 10:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347790#Comment_119347790

The UK will intervene if it percieves a threat to itself.

The Russians setting up a beachhead/base here would be seen as a threat to NATO. They already intervene in our skies.

They were laughing sinking the UK and Ireland with Nukes on tv.

There are fantasists in Russia too? Or there are people here who fall for bait intended for them? Quelle surprise.

17-07-2022 11:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345712#Comment_119345712

Regarding the title of the thread, I think Problem 2 ought to carry more weight for voters. People bitch and moan about the rising cost of most things. What's not mentioned often enough is the funding which allows us to buy those things. If we take it that mr. putrid's aim is to do as much harm as possible to the EU, UK, USA etc. then a lot of sources of income for Irish people are directly put at risk. Foreign Direct Investment, low corporate tax rates, EU investment in infrastructure, scientific and education relationships, Agriculture funding through CAP.

IMO it's the height of selfishness & foolishness for Ireland to stay outside of defense structures which protect our collective Western values.

17-07-2022 12:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347846#Comment_119347846

a large embassy and a cgi nuke, these are the reasons why i should be thankful for the raf?

russia has a big embassy here, not out of some disproportionate particular interest in our affairs, but out of our own usual ineptitude and disinterest. they just couldn't get away with it anywhere else.

bob mcbob · 17-07-2022 02:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347678#Comment_119347678

So are you saying that everyone who gets attacked in some way or other brought it on themselves?

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 02:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348969#Comment_119348969

Well I think some members of NATO certainly play the geopolitical games with gusto. Let them at it, I want no part in that for us.

Podge_irl · 17-07-2022 05:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119345712#Comment_119345712

I think point 2 is a good argument for joining NATO.

There are three problems being discussed here though, and problem 3) is some mythical invasion which is utter fantasy.

GalwayMark · 17-07-2022 06:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348996#Comment_119348996

Why don't you ask people from Eastern European countries why they wanted to Join Nato and then come back without the smart alec talk. Usually agree with you on a lot of thing but this is plain offensive to suggest it's a game.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 06:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349953#Comment_119349953

If you don't think some members of NATO have played games the naivety is yours. Eastern Europeans face credible threats of invasion, we don't.

GalwayMark · 17-07-2022 07:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350066#Comment_119350066

I'm under no illusions about some members of NATO being involved with anti-Russia nations in other theatres, but maybe put yourself in an Eastern European's shoes and think how they perceive your comment and see why they get very furious by mentioning that sort of thing. The Ukrainian ambassador was wrong to refer to the UK as a 'friendly country' when responding to Michael D Higgins call for Ukraine to be neutral which sounded extremely tone-deaf considering they're homes are being bombarded and ruined but comments like that go down very badly and make us look very uncaring.

Yurt2 · 17-07-2022 07:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350066#Comment_119350066

What does "played games" mean?

I've heard this exact hazy language used many times by reflexive anti-Western people and (generally) people on the farther political left. What exactly do they mean by "played games" and what do these "games" consist of? I've never quite gotten a straight answer when I pose the question.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 07:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350164#Comment_119350164

Would you ever lose the 'anti-west' stchick?

There are differing opinions in the west, get over it.

nato war games - Google Search

Yurt2 · 17-07-2022 07:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350301#Comment_119350301

Oh, you literally mean NATO training excercises. Hate to break it you, but such excercises are a critical part of their job. If that's the "game" they play, long may they play it. Europe needs credible defence.

And a good lot of people criticising NATO are died-in-the-wool perversely anti-western and have pretty unpalatable authoritarian political pecadillos.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 07:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350350#Comment_119350350

Anti those in the west who engage in game playing and tension making and war mongering Yurt.

NOT anti western.

The above are not defining traits of being from the west

Yurt2 · 17-07-2022 07:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350391#Comment_119350391

"Game playing". So militaries training. Stone the crows, militaries training is "war mongering" now. I suppose the Army Ranger Wing conducting their maritime excercises the other day were at the old war mongering lark as well.

Put down the Noam Chomsky books, it's very undergraduate, and very 2002.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 08:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350413#Comment_119350413

Yeh and when the Russians 'train their armies' it's what Yurt?

FFS it is challenging NATO or Europe but sure NATO would never be at that craic.

Boring reply. They both are at it and I want no part of it for Ireland.

Yurt2 · 17-07-2022 08:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350507#Comment_119350507

Russia are perfectly entitled as a sovereign nation to conduct excercises within their borders.

What they are not entitled to do is to annex neighboring sovereign states. Which is rather the point, and one you'd rather miss.

bob mcbob · 17-07-2022 08:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348996#Comment_119348996

Lets get back to you being a good metaphor for Ireland.

I'm actually a good metaphor for Ireland, we don't go looking for fights or play games that will end up in fights.

The reality is your policy is to run away from anything that may result in a fight.

A friend is attacked - ignore it and hope they don't notice us. Ireland is threatened - ah sure the big boys will deal with it. Our way of life is threatened - do you know what it will cost to deal with it.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 08:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350533#Comment_119350533

And if they sail into international waters for excercises, they are challenging NATO and the EU. But if NATO conduct huge excersises on their borders they are 'just training'.

Boring Yurt, heard it all before, they have been at this for years before any annexation...willy waving/game playing for adults.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 08:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350568#Comment_119350568

Ireland isn't credibly threatened Bob. Not buying the fantasy invasion scenarios.

Yurt2 · 17-07-2022 08:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350579#Comment_119350579

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that until the annexation of Crimea and the events of 2014, with the direct security threat posed to Baltic states, NATO refrained for decades from conducting any and all excercises in Eastern Europe even vaguely near Russia.

Putin earned those excercises on his doorstep with his actions, and they were and are necessary from a practical point of view if worst came to worst, and as a deterrence. Prior to 2014, the US/UK had probably a few dozen people in Eastern Europe with a NATO hat on, and in office-bound roles.

Once again, you've proved yourself to be a prime-time Putinversteher. You've an unbelievable knack for it.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 08:57PM

See map and review NATO actions in 1999 and 2004 long before Russia entered Crimea.

I'm not 12 Yurt.

Two sides willy-

waving at each other for decades and it eventually ends up in bloodshed and war.

Yurt2 · 17-07-2022 09:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350690#Comment_119350690

Those are NATO enlargements not excercises Francie. Wise up. Once again, you've proved you have a very thin grasp of the facts.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 09:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350752#Comment_119350752

You talked about 'excercises', I was talking about a geopolitical game they have played for decades,

Dyr · 17-07-2022 09:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350775#Comment_119350775

You mean the game where Russias former colonies want to be a part of military alliance so Russia doesnt invade them again? Yes indeed, a cunning NATO plot to have engineered 300 years of Russian imperialism before NATO existed

And you still call yourself a Nationalist no doubt, but like most of the Nationalists knocking about Ireland today, your worldview originated in a KGB think tank around 1948. Wise up there, Sean Garland.

FrancieBrady · 17-07-2022 09:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350802#Comment_119350802

Really worked for Ukraine Dyr.

You have a one dimensional view. I attemept to see it from both sides.

Is it time to join Nato

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