The Pushback against Leftism

Annasopra · 06-07-2022 02:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298676#Comment_119298676

Nah. Its morally depraved to be delighted that a Muslim did it and use that to spread extremist hatred.

06-07-2022 03:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298730#Comment_119298730

Delighted!?

How could anyone possibly be "delighted" by that?

If a right-wing extremist murdered those two homosexuals on the grounds that they were homosexuals, you would be on here saying how homophobic fascists were on the march in Ireland.

When we learn that it was an Islamic extremist, you still focus your attention on the far-right rather than on the perpetrator and the circumstances under which he committed that depraved act. Why are you being totally inconsistent in your approach?

If you are against homophobia, which I'm sure you are, you should at least be consistent in your position, rather than using these murders to piece together a false narrative that some people in society were somehow, bizarrely "delighted" by what happened.

It's quite frankly an outrageous thing to say.

Foxtrol · 06-07-2022 04:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298384#Comment_119298384

You didnt feel the smallest bit of irony or hypocrisy when putting together this rant which is you doing exactly what you claim the 'far left process' is? No engagement with any posts or points just attacking a strawman.

You talk about safe spaces for the left while the right is losing it over children's story time that they dont agree with that no parent is forced to bring their child to. At the same time their latest man crush in Florida is banning math school books because they might teach empathy, banning teachers from having pictures of their spouses or wearing rainbow clothing, and demanding faculty fill out a survey on their beliefs, while other right wing run states are banning the use of the term slavery.

No element of the spectrum have clean hands when it comes to debate - just like all sides get 'triggered' or have 'snowflakes'.

Foxtrol · 06-07-2022 04:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298061#Comment_119298061

I actually agree here, the majority of people with those sort of far right leanings are only in a few small corners of Ireland - unfortunately this site is one of the spots where they raise their anonymous heads usually to support actions in other countries.

The idea of a 'pushback against leftism' in Ireland is just about as ridiculous, as can be seen by how the political parties with any clout nearly universally embrace the exact liberal ideologies that you see 'pushback' happening in other countries.

No harm of being vigilant of the far right but Irish people are in general decent folk and for the most part have not been sucked in by it and usually more likely to just laugh at the characters involved for that backwards mindset

dorothylives · 06-07-2022 05:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297854#Comment_119297854

Yes they did. I was waiting in a shop the week after the murder and the male owner was chatting with his female staff about this incident and one of the women was telling him that men should cross the road when they see a woman so that they don't scare her, that they shouldn't make eye contact with a woman that they don't know for the same reason. There was wall to wall coverage across media every single day. Every single columnist had daily articles on toxic masculinity and how Irish men needed to change. There was endless talk about it and it painted every Irish male as a potential rapist/thug/wife beater.

There was even one banging on about the Irish Mammy being a part of the problem. It was fecking relentless, it pissed a huge amount of people off and it stopped as soon as it was established that the man who murdered her was foreign and just a little bit tanned looking. Just like the coverage of the 2 gay men murdered stopped as soon as it turned out to be the privileged son of a wealthy Muslim couple who came here from a camp in Lebanon as part of a government scheme when he was 12 years old.

Mike Murdock · 06-07-2022 05:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298061#Comment_119298061

How will NGOs get funding if there is no enemy to fight? Even though they are tilting at windmills, they do cause enough commotion to gain attention.

ancapailldorcha · 06-07-2022 05:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299551#Comment_119299551

So, you encountered a crank.

06-07-2022 05:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299551#Comment_119299551

Don't be ridiculous.

Its clearly true that the main conversation in all the papers and telly and radio and social media was about how we should be suspicious about non white people.

You've no proof that it wasn't (I mean apart from all the evidence and proof and you know, memory of it happening) and if you say different then you hate non white people.

Oh and a self proclaimed queer was battered with a baseball bat and stabbed multiple times in broad daylight on the busiest street in Dublin during pride month. Facts aren't needed for that because we all know that this happens all the time because of the fascist right.

We will just all assume it's true and shout victim blaming if you don't accept it is totally true. Our side don't lie and haven't got extremists pushing an agenda.

Am I doing it right progressives?

Montage of Feck · 06-07-2022 05:58PM

Over in France, a country with actual left and right politics, the hard left and right are now two sides of the same coin, Putinite populists.

06-07-2022 06:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299767#Comment_119299767

No true Scotsman...

dorothylives · 06-07-2022 06:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299767#Comment_119299767

Nice attempt at deflection. That attitude was everywhere and it was well and truly exploited by the mainstream media and you know it. You could at least try honesty.

ancapailldorcha · 06-07-2022 08:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299917#Comment_119299917

Prove it then. No cherrypicked anecdotes, actual proof.

06-07-2022 08:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300423#Comment_119300423

It's a bit rich to ask others for evidence when you have point blank not engaged with any points that other's have raised to you.

Instead, it has only been snide, dismissive comments rather than actual engagement.

06-07-2022 08:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299917#Comment_119299917

I wouldn't bother. I think it's been well proven at this stage and it's just the next step in the cycle.

Deflect, derail, dishonest.

06-07-2022 08:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300437#Comment_119300437

And there's zero expectation from any of us that any amount of evidence would matter even slightly.

Anything that disagrees with that posters pov is dismissed. You could provide pages of evidence, and he'd merely disappear for a few pages, only to come back later with more accusations, aggressive claims, and such. Rinse and repeat. It's not as if that poster hasn't behaved this way on numerous other threads already.

Foxtrol · 06-07-2022 08:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300478#Comment_119300478

Maybe try starting with providing evidence that goes beyond what certain posters feel happened, backed up with an anecdote.

Even if there was that 'attitude' as claimed, there is another huge leap here with the assumption of causation when those stories fell out of the news. That assumption is completely based on feelings and coincidentally appear to perfectly align with the poster's worldview while ignoring how every single story falls out of the news cycle, some never even making it there.

ancapailldorcha · 06-07-2022 08:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300478#Comment_119300478

The standard cop out.

If you want to spout baseless drivel, go for it. I've no problem calling it what it is and dismissing the pathetic right wing blogs and videos that sometimes get desperately dumped here in lieu of actual evidence.

06-07-2022 08:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300598#Comment_119300598

About 30 minutes ago, I said the following regarding the content of your posts:

It's a bit rich to ask others for evidence when you have point blank not engaged with any points that other's have raised to you.

Instead, it has only been snide, dismissive comments rather than actual engagement.

Some things never change...

If your arguments were strong, you'd wipe the floor with us with the confidence of the value of your posts.

But by openly and now proudly "dismissing" other's posts in the way that you just have (and continue to do), the credibility of your posts carry very, very little value - much less than they already did.

And trust me, that value hit rock bottom a long time ago.

06-07-2022 08:45PM

I think he has a point, because this

"It is every man’s responsibility to step in or speak up when a woman may be in danger"

does not mean the same thing as this

"Your guys tried to turn those that poor girls tragic death into a two week media-backed campaign about how bad ALL men were and that ALL men were responsible and had to do more."

And that article does say

"The sense of entitlement some men have over women is illustrated every day in how women are spoken to, how they are seen, discredited and disrespected."

06-07-2022 08:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300653#Comment_119300653

his direct request was:

"Prove it. Where did it say all men were responsible as was claimed?"

I gave a quote from a published opinion piece which said:

"It is every man’s responsibility to step in or speak up when a woman may be in danger"

I don't think there's any argument there.

Foxtrol · 06-07-2022 08:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300624#Comment_119300624

And if your arguments were 'strong' you'd be able to back it up with evidence and not feelings and anecdotes.

Why should people have to accept a person's feelings about a situation and a demand that they aren't questioned and that they should be treated as facts in a discussion?

Call it dismissive but I've found that it is a waste of time to have a discussion when someone who can't accept that their point of view is based on their feelings with no evidence to support it - which very much seems to be the case here.

06-07-2022 09:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300757#Comment_119300757

"Why should people have to accept a person's feelings about a situation and a demand that they aren't questioned and that they should be treated as facts in a discussion?"

So where do you stand on the Trans/gender debate?

Lol. You're so close...

Foxtrol · 06-07-2022 09:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300709#Comment_119300709

So your only bit of evidence is an online oped in a college newspaper? 😅

Even if that was 'main stream media', your comprehension skills need a hell of a lot of work if that sentence is supposed to be your proof.

A person can have responsibility for an action but it doesn't mean they are responsible if it doesn't happen.

For example, I can be responsible for cleaning the kitchen if I see it dirty but I am therefore not responsible if my brother comes home at 3am and makes a mess in it while I am asleep.

It is basic primary school level stuff there

06-07-2022 09:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300709#Comment_119300709

"responsibility to step in or speak up" is not what you meant when you posted this "how bad ALL men were and that ALL men were responsible and had to do more."

It is not the same thing.

Foxtrol · 06-07-2022 09:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300790#Comment_119300790

I believe this is a perfect case of you just being caught red handed using the exact tactics you were just complaining about others doing a few minutes ago

Deflect, derail, dishonest.

Embarrassing

Sweetemotion · 06-07-2022 09:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300840#Comment_119300840

I never really paid attention to any of his posts before this thread, his "murderous christian fascists" reply was like wtf.

06-07-2022 09:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300870#Comment_119300870

There is a plethora of evidence. I've a feeling that anyone we go denies that there wasn't an immediate dog pile on men in the aftermath of the death, then they aren't arguing in good faith.

I'm not trawling the rte archives or Twitter for you. There were an abundance of threads on here too. You were probably active on them.

It's common knowledge that for the week or two after that poor girls death, there was an abundance of collective guilt laid on men, who were told they needed to do better on traditional media, social media and in the community.

If that somehow passed you by, then I'm not going to jog your memory for you.

The reason I gave the op-ed as a very quick example is because it was exactly what that poster asked for. An example of where someone said all men were responsible.

Your example is not really applicable as it doesn't take into account the context and tone of the piece as a whole.

06-07-2022 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300934#Comment_119300934

Why would that be embarrassing?

"Why should people have to accept a person's feelings about a situation and a demand that they aren't questioned and that they should be treated as facts in a discussion?"

That's an great question to pose. I agree with you.

Unusual to hear a left leaning poster pose such a question though as it does make a mockery of gender theory/GRA

06-07-2022 09:30PM

A quick browse through the thread finds few who understand what is left and right. A person on the bottom “right” quadrant would not in any world be a leftist but being open to immigration and trans rights to name but two issues would not be strange for those individuals. Someone on the top “left” quadrant would very much be a leftist, but also for immigration control and other restrictions on individual liberty.

Examples, based on UK, where real world positions of various groups lie

buried · 06-07-2022 09:32PM

Liberals trying to convince themselves that something didn't happen, that actually did, or is actually currently happening, is par for the course at this stage

The Pushback against Leftism

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