Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Food banks and the famine really have nothing got to do with each other.

In fact "food bank" is actually a misleading name for those places as they deal in all categories of grocery and it's often found that people have spent what little they have on food and are going to a food bank for everything except food.

What comparison?

I'm not comparing the present with the past. I'm asserting that the established trend will inevitably lead to food security problems. It's arrogance to state otherwise considering the established upward explosion of food banks in the UK since 2008.

A historical note the workhouses where so many perished were actually mostly constructed before the mass failure of the tenants main food. It was policy not to interfere with insecure tenure just as the current UK government is happy to let Britain be asset stripped now.

There was no shortage of food in Ireland when the blight ruined the subsistence crop of the tenant farmer.

People in Liverpool didn't believe there was mass starvation in Ireland because their docks were constantly full of Irish wheat, beef and butter.

The potato also failed across western Europe, blight being first noted in France, but only in Ireland did it lead to mass starvation.

The workhouses may as well have had "arbeit macht frei" above their entrances.

I am going by the extract posted by Nody. Let me highlight

the Labour leader will.. say .. would not join a customs union with the EU, in maintaining the hard Brexit brokered by Boris Johnson.

He wants a new veterinary agreement for agricultural products moving between the UK and EU, and an enhanced trusted trader scheme to allow low-risk goods entering Northern Ireland without unnecessary checks.

a new veterinary agreement in a bid to resolve the protocol row, Labour would also try to extend a veterinary agreement to cover all of the UK –

As Nody wrote, "..let's do all this stuff already proposed that EU already said "no way" to two previous PMs because Starmer will make it work"

@54and56 said I don't think that's at all fair. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his politics Starmer is at least honourable and trustworthy

but

@ancapailldorcha said Starmer is only aligned on them because he feels he has to be. His party is pro-Remain and pro-EU. There's no way he maintains his current position if he becomes PM.

So is he trustworthy, keeping his word , or intending to change his position when he gets elected as PM?

The whole point is, Starmer is now saying he will deliver a new agreement with the EU but he is ruling out a customs union or aligning with the single market. It just isn't deliverable, any more than the ready made deal for Christmas that Johnson delivered.

I had great hopes for Starmer, felling he had the analytical mind to sort through the agreements and media savvy enough to sell it. But I fear I was wrong, The EU are not going to go over or change any agreement to allow a new UK government cherry pick the best bits of EU membership, at least not until the NI Protocol in working properly. If he came out unabiguously and stated that he would immediately live up to the withdrawal agreement, NIP included, then I would have more confidence he position was different to Johnsons. So far he hasn't.

At this stage, I think there is a certain exhaustion in the EU around Brexit. No one will be happy to get into negotiation again with the UK. And the commission wont move until the NIP is sorted and implemented.

I would think the EU would only agree to such an agreement if the UK agreed , by treaty, to align with EU standards. They would not countenance an agreement simply based on current standards when the UK government are already talking of changing them.

What i am waiting to hear from Starmer is that as PM he will live up to the current agreements with the EU. Until then, from an outsider(Eu) perspective, there is little to distinguish the Tory and Labour position . I think that both revolve around the idea of UK exceptionalism and that a new government can reset the negotiations with the EU

your problem seems to be that you think only the uk has issues and the rest of europe does not . while the uk has slightly bigger issues its not like uk is very bad eu is doing super well. germany and france have many many food banks and germany has a lot of issue with animal hygiene and meat processing. all the european main countries have lorry driver shortages and all big airports and airlines in europe have huge issues.

With respect you obviously didn't read my earlier post where I explained that the number of German food banks mostly exist on paper from the post war reconstruction era, whereas in the UK they've exploded in numbers since 2008.

The main point is that in the last decade foodbanks in UK have surpassed the amount Germany required after a catastrophic war. The fact that other European countries have food banks has zero to do with the established trend in the UK since 2008 to the point where essential workers now rely on them.

At least now some people who voted for brexit might finally realise that it was not the EU asset stripping their nation.

Brexit is history in the making. It's possibly the greatest example of a nation imposing trade sanctions upon itself in the modern age.

The explosion of UK foodbanks may have increased the desire for change that the Brexit campaigner took advantage of.

One thing is certain, brexit has accelerated the decline of living standards that was already underway. The EU is about pooling resources in a world of rising competing trade blocs just to maintain the current standard of living, but the UK going it alone means basically trading its current standard for something less.

They'll never admit that of course, instead concocting half truths to tell themselves that food banks are normal, the return of polio is normal etc....

@ancapailldorcha wrote ... There's even a firm in Galway specialising in Natural Killer (type of immune cell) cell therapies.

What hurts Ireland most is its lack of infrastructure and cost of living. I looked into the Galway firm but accommodation is quite expensive, even in Galway.

Have you considered satellite towns around Galway. Accommodation would be cheaper and the infrastructure is slowly improving.

.... A bit tongue-in-cheek but the Irish don't have to worry about their country sinking economically like their neighbour or literally like the Dutch.

Off topic, but being Irish i think i can tell this one. I was told a joke about the Irish and Dutch swapping countries. The Dutch went on to feed the world, the Irish drowned.

I can definitely see Ireland benefiting from moving up the food chain in a number of sectors thanks to Brexit. I'm pretty sure I read that automotive software development had even become a thing in Ireland which it hadn't been previously. The IDA should be absolutely merciless in trying to attract FDI away from GB to us. We owe them nothing after the way they've behaved.