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Irish Championship 2022

  • 26-06-2022 3:40pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭


    It is very clear to anyone that follows chess tournaments online that a lot of our better players are quite happy to play in the 4 NCL and other foreign tournaments but consider themselves above playing in Irish tournaments , even the Irish Championship. As things stand 8 of our 10 highest FIDE rated players can't be bothered supporting their national championship and if you look further down the rating list many are quite happy to support foreign tournaments but not our own. When people stop bothering to organize or sponsor tournaments in Ireland we will know who to blame.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭zeitnot


    The entry seems low all right. Only 18 (with one player listed twice). Still some time to go to enter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    It was a mistake to move it from August because of the Olympiad as most of the Olympiad teams haven't entered anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    The venue isn't as good as Scoil Eanna either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭corkcitychess


    Looking forward to the online coverage

    best of luck to all those playing...9 days is a big comittment and you all have my respect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    Everyone playing in the 4ncl are or have been some of the best and most active players in the country. Understandably there hasnt been a huge amount of tournaments in the last year or so with Covid.

    Plenty of time for more people to enter but even if more dont the tournament is still pretty strong. The last 4/5 years were exceptional with the majority of our top players playing. I dont think we can expect that to happen every year.

    You also have to consider quite a few of the Irish playing 4ncl do not live in Ireland and accommodation is a nightmare to get in Dublin. Makes playing really expensive for anyone outside of Dublin.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I haven't seen many of the 4NCL participants at Irish tournaments in recent years. The excellent Bolger Cup held last year in Rathfarnam had more foreign players than domestic as far as I remember.

    I agree with you about the cost of staying in Dublin. Scoil Eanna is much easier to get to than Stillorgan for most of us that do live outside Dublin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    The Bolger Cup clashed with a 4ncl weekend which would have prevented lots of people from playing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    Irish players have been playing 4ncl chess since it started. If anything tournament organiser should consider 4ncl dates if they want our best players playing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    Eanna not available - it was a huge committment from them to house us the last few years; I know from running the Irish Open in Gonzaga for 6 days how much hard work can go into trying to just maintain the place, let alone run the event.

    I made the judgement call to run it in July rather than August - we also didn't really have a choice in the end as no venues were available in August for 9 consecutive days. It'll likely be back to August next year which was always the plan. We were probably just due a down year; both from a player and organiser impetus point of view. There was certainly less feedback from players from an early stage for this one - whether it was going to be in June, July or August. Just hard to keep going at the levels we were at; particularly in covid times when player pull-outs are demoralising. Not as simple to say "run in August, the players will come" - the lack of olympiad players means no norm chances, which means less 2200+ players, which has the same drip down effect all the way to your 1900 players.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭zeitnot


    18 entries now: it seems Mark Quinn has dropped out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    @sodacat11 Pipe down brother. No need for all of this, if they don't want to play, they don't have to, they're not obliged. Who says they think they're above everyone else? They may very well still enter. The venue is 10x better than Eanna as well, so much easier for people to get to. I appreciate what Eanna have done to make chess events great but the Talbot has always been the majorities preferred venue. The spaciousness, the facilities, the everything. So much based. Here's hoping more people enter and I hope for a cracking event, but if not, it eeeeeez what it eeeeeez




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    You've obviously never played in an Irish Ch in the Talbot or maybe you like music from a wedding reception and paying 4 euro for a cup of coffee while you are playing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I presume (hope) that the inclusion of a 1600 rated player is a mistake? My understanding is that you must be over 1900 on either the ICU or FIDE rating list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    @sodacat11 I'd say 95% of people find the Talbot way more accessible to get to and more of a suitable venue. Eanna is so far out there. Do you know that there will be a wedding reception this year or something? It depends on the music to be fair, I don't mind a bit of R&B. I agree that the prices at the bar are a bit steep but then again, so is everywhere, prices have shot up on everything!! I've played many classical events at the Talbot and I've never had a bad experience to be honest. Obviously the best scenario would be a venue in the city center but the Talbot is still a class venue and so much goes into organising it.

    As for the 1600 on the entry list for the championships, perhaps he was chosen as a wildcard? No big deal regardless. There are in fact 4 players there towards the end that "don't qualify", but they should still be allowed play in my opinion. The more people representing this tournament, the better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    First thing to do is forget the ratings the players are listed as. It's totally IRRELVANT. It is a Fide rated event and it is the Fide ratings that matter for seeding and pairings. The ones displayed are ICU only.

    The seedings thus in reality will be different. Compare the rating of Anthont Doyle who is 2100+ Fide. So please put out of your mind these ratings as displayed.

    There are 4 players below 1900 as far as I can see. The last player to enter is 1700+ something. 3 playrs are 1800+ something and all of these players are easily worth 1900, or on a good day even more. They are all very young and if one considers the massive distortions of ratings during the PANICdemic and huge lack of opportunties for younger, or up and coming players to compete and get their rating up, then a little bit of slack can be shown without any negative impact.

    Sure it is annoying to play lower rated players that technically are below the 1900 threshold but they are likely all stronger enough to deserve the benefit of the doubt and chance to play in such a strong event. The latest entry, whom I know nothing about other than he is 1700+ and born in 2009 is so young that I assume he may well be much better than his rating anyway.

    It is really not a big deal to be a bit flexible when chess is trying to recover and find it's feet again. What are the odds one or two of these sub 1900 players end up doing better than you? (sodcat) You are rated 1900+ yet you have drawn and beaten players hundreds of points higher. Do you really think players see you as just a 1900+ player? I don't think so, it's all relative and you often can and do play up. Goodness forbid your ratings both ICU and Fide drop below 1900 and you were a lowly 1800+ player. Honestly don'tthink anybody would mind or comlain if you still played in an Irish ch.

    These players will probably do the same and are willing to give up 9 days in such a tough event so Id cut them some slack and welcome them to the most prestigious tournament we have.

    This year is still incredibly strong no matter what metric used. Any of about 7 players are very serious contenders.We have Heidi replaced with J Ryan , both now two time champs and we lose Murphy and Fitzsimons and get Henry li. Overall a very compettitive field with the top seed GM Baburin probably the favorite but really no way to pick a likely winner as has been the case for a few years now. Last time there was anything close to a dominant or and convincing win was 2018 by IM A Lopez.

    Last few years have all been deserving and yet also lucky to a certain extent.

    I am going to bet on Joe Ryan winning it this year. But then I also predicted that Furija would finnish last in the candidates and Nepo would finnish third or 2nd at best! Fabi being my number one bet. Thankfully I did not bet very much and am reluctant to bet on any event that I might be playing in.

    Word on the street is that Peter Caffolla has been studying and training for months like the bejasus and is going to go all out this year and shock everybody with the performance of his life and destroy the field.

    Like I say, I aint betting on anybody anymore.

    7.5 will win it!



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    Correction. The number one seed is now FM Tom O Gorman as GM Baburin has lost 3 rating points in the July list. Ah well, close enough. Probably joint favorites ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Not everyone lives in Dublin so a city centre venue is a nightmare for anyone travelling from outside the Pale or from abroad. Accommodation, traffic and parking make city centre venues a complete no no as far as I'm concerned. Also, organsisers have to pay much more to rent city centre venues, when the City of Dublin was being held in that awful venue the Findlater Hotel (or whatever it was called) it was costing literally thousands to rent.

    I have no problem playing in open tournaments and frequently do. For an Irish Championship strict qualifying criteria which should be observed. I don't buy this "never mind the quality feel the width" approach. Of the four technically "non qualified" players on the list for the Irish two have proved in numerous tournaments that they are 1900 level or better and will undoubtedly outperform their ratings so I can accept their inclusion but the other two are "iffy" at best and I certainly won't be travelling up to Dublin with petrol prices what they are to play someone rated under 1700. If I am drawn against him I will forfeit the game and go play golf or watch Wimbledon instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    The rating difference is much worse for the top seeds when they have to play a 1900!

    Having played the bottom seed he is definitely a talented player who has a bright future and I expect him to perform well. It wasnt that long ago when Henry and Tom were below 1900 and playing the Irish. Look at where they are now.

    Prediction wise its hard to look past Tom, Tarun and Conor. All 3 are active playing regularly and should be the players to beat.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Yes the rating difference is worse for top players playing 1900s but "them's da rules". My preference would be for the Irish Championship to be a 10 player round robin for players rated over 2200 but it isn't.

    I've been playing in Irish Championships for decades and just qualifying to play in it used to be a big deal but over the years the whole thing has been devalued and has lost its mystique, now it is just another glorified open tournament. I was looking forward to playing this year but now I've lost interest and have seriously considered withdrawing. I'm going to play because I've made domestic arrangements to enable it but this will probably be the last time I bother unless there is some change in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭zeitnot


    The ICU can invite two players and the organisers can invite one, regardless of rating. This was voted in at an AGM (basically, greatly narrowing the list of exceptions and tightening up qualifications). Maybe it's more noticeable now that the field is much smaller than in the last four years.

    At present, there are 21 players. I assume there will be some final adjustment to ensure an even number of players. It would make no sense to stretch the rules and create a bye at the same time.

    "Just hard to keep going at the levels we were at" (Rtd.LoyolaCpt earlier): yes, the last few championships have been exceptional all round. Just one statistic: before 2018 there had never been two consecutive championships with 30 or more players. Each of the last four exceeded that threshold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    The latest entry is 1746– not 1600? – and used to be 1800 too.


    https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2514656


    I imagine he will be well able to play to the standard of 1900 and above during his first Irish Ch. Refusing to play him would deny yourself a chance to beat a player who in years to come may become much stronger than you?

    It is also disrespectful to yourself and the tournament and not least the young lad himself, who is after all totally innocent and just wants to play chess and doubtless would look forward to playing against players like yourself whom he would probably look up to and want to learn from and yes beat you too!

    Of course you have every right to be annoyed at having to play a player who technically is below the required rating standard. Nevertheless, given that a decision has been made to allow him entry I think you can easily just lodge a complaint to register your unhappiness and they may consider that for future events. Such an isolated and rare exception serves to prove the rule which you want to see adhered to so strictly.

    However to openly declare you won’t play a player is at the least bad form, unsporting and unbecoming of a player of your experience and age. Presumably the main thing with an Irish ch s to get some interesting chess played, and while at times it can be unpleasant, even at times irritating playing such young players so much lower rated than us, it is just part of it all?

    Also, as I mentioned, owing to the huge effects of the last few years with the PANICdemic and resultant effects on chess tournament (Look at the ICU calendar since 2020) that has denied so many players from normal rating reflection a case can easily be made to be less strict with ratings. Maybe next year or the year after such flexibility would or could be greatly curtailed as per a complaint by you to remind of keeping such standards.

    Don’t forget that the main idea of setting a rating standard is to try maximize the minimum level of play and encourage players to aspire to such a playing standard and there are bound to be cases where a player is already of such a laying level but this is not not reflected in their rating yet. 99% of the time we can say, too bad, just bad luck, but every now and then we can acknowledge that a young and or upcoming player and Irish chess beneifits from encouraging such a player with such an opportunity.

    The notion that the Irish ch has lost it's prestige is just wrong. It has gone through periods when it was less than ideal and even poor yes, but in recent years it has been as strong or stronger than ever. I can't think of hardly a single example of, in the last maybe 10-15 or even 5 years, where there was a player not worthy of participating in terms of their playing strength. Feel free to point one example of players you think did not justify their participation in terms of playing to 1900 level. I might be mistaken but I am not able to think of any, off the top my head.

    HAVE A HEART!



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    As regards your "predictions/projections" lol) Nah that is superficial and wishful thinking surely?

    Might be true in the two games a day faster time limit tournaments alright, but here,with one game a day and a longer time control at move 40 for the Irish ch? Endgame skills might come more into play too?

    The older more experienced crafty over 50s brigade of GM Baburin 2400, FM Ryan 2270, FM Daly 2190, all previous winners too, as compared with FM O’ Gorman 2403 (only one of the under 23s Brigade here to have won it yet) FM Kanyamarala 2379 FM O`Donnell 2269, will have too many tricks up their sleeves and they will just reel in the young ones like fish, not exactly in a barrel, but perhaps on a hook dangled in front of them and after they have taken the bait?

    Might be a few instances of “Doing a Killian” and traps abounding of all sort, confounding and confusing the hungry and impressionable young minds here and there as they plunge perilously to their doom just when they think its’ all over?

    https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/irish-championship-2020/7/1/1

    As you know well yourself the Irish ch can be such a dream killer and replete with diabolical twists and turns that can cause any reasonable strong player to sometimes despair and just give up.

    Agree that it seems very unlikely for that to happen with Tom, Tarun or Connor, and to their credit they have come back everytime the last few years too but as with the candidates tournament in Madrid right now, it is the older generation of the players who are mostly in the top half and all chasing for the top three places, the young Iranian falling flat and in last place being a curious outcome already!

    Notwithstanding that predicting is a mugs game (mostly projection and wishful thinking) I will be so bold as to suggest that

    Team over 50s Baburin, Ryan, Daly

    will end up with more points and ahead of

    Team under 23s O’Gorman, Kanyamarala, O Donnell

    at the end.

    Though we might still agree (or maybe not) that the winner will almost certainly be from one of those six players. Henry Li being a dark horse too admittedly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    "At present, there are 21 players. I assume there will be some final adjustment to ensure an even number of players. It would make no sense to stretch the rules and create a bye at the same time."


    Agree that having an even number and zero byes when possible is by far the best and most crucial thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    I agree with @spidersweb . You should allow for such players to prove themselves against Ireland's elite. I think it would be incredibly poor form for @sodacat11 to forfeit against a player who is 'below him'. Imagine having to travel to the venue (which I still stand by, is a perfectly situated spot), only to find out that your opponent has forfeited. One would think that it would be because of an emergency, but no, it's because your opponent doesn't want to waste time on you, you'd feel a bit degraded to be honest. Surely if they're that much worse than you, you should put them away handy enough and gain a few points while you're at it? Should you lose, then that's that, they played better than you, that's the bottom line, and perhaps one day as Spidersweb mentioned, they will be the next big thing in Irish chess and chasing norms! It's all about experience for the up and coming generation, and it's great to see such interest especially after the hiatus we all had during Covid. I'd understand if there was a 1500 allowed enter but I firmly believe everyone on that list right now is capable of playing to 2000 strength (and more obviously) if they wanted to. You never hear of any of the titled players sulk about the precious ratings.

    "now it is just another glorified open tournament. I was looking forward to playing this year but now I've lost interest and have seriously considered withdrawing. I'm going to play because I've made domestic arrangements to enable it but this will probably be the last time I bother unless there is some change in the future." What does this even mean? It's hardly a glorified open tournament, it's still the mostly highly anticipated chess event of the year and it never disappoints with exciting games and twists and turns. Why don't you just suck it up and enjoy the chess? It's what we all have in common here, we all love the chess. What changes do you even want? Venue to be in Colaiste Eanna and only be for players with FIDE titles? Do me a favour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    He will not have to "travel to the venue only to find that his opponent has forfeited" I am giving plenty of notice as regards my intention to forfeit.

    If I never play another Irish Ch it is not going to make much difference to the tournament and I would be perfectly happy to go play in the British Seniors/Veterans instead where I am sure that all the contestants will have met the age criteria without exception.

    I'm not going to argue the point any longer. The Irish Championship has traditionally been for players over 1900 and I don't like how in recent years it has been devalued to suit sponsors, rich parents, club mates, coaches and other people of undue influence.

    As far as predictions go I'd tip Tom O'Gorman to win and Flynn and Daly to play above their seedings. Grading prizes to O'Cuilleanain and Cafolla



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    @sodacat11 Fair enough re giving notice as you call it , but it's still a bit uncalled for to forfeit a game for such an unimportant reason. Just very over the top. Imagine forfeiting a game where you could easily get a result and gain rating by doing so. I don't understand, but anyway.


    You make it sound like it's a big conspiracy lol, it hasn't been devalued at all, you're the only one who thinks that. It can be a learning experience for those playing it for the first time, how to deal with the different time control, playing with the big guns and in an intense environment where the stakes are high; all very exciting stuff. We'll agree to disagree.

    I have no ideal who will win this year. Perhaps Alex Goss or Oisin O'Cuilleanain to win a grading, or maybe even the enigmatic Peter Carroll, they've all been playing well recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    Team U23 for the win!

    1st Conor

    2nd Tarun

    3rd Henry

    Hard to know what the grading bands will be but I will go for Alice and John Kennedy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 30 FMtoog


    Competition Tipping

    1st O'Gorman T

    2nd Kanyamarala

    3rd Baburin

    U2100 Grading Prizes: O'Gorman, A and Kavin Venkatesan

    Round 1 Tipping

    Ivanov draw

    Goss win

    O'Gorman T win



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 macadamiasweep


    Tipping Competition

    1st Kanyamarala,Tarun

    2nd Flynn, Jacob

    3rd Cafolla, Peter

    u2100 grading prize, Oisin O Cuileanain,Andrey Ivanov

    round 1:

    Ivanov Draw

    Keenan win

    O Cuileanain draw



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭zeitnot


    Is there a link for live boards? The tournament page Chess24 link points to last year's championship.

    Tipping:

    1. Kanyamarala
    2. O'Donnell
    3. Baburin

    I won't enter the tipping competition this time--did too badly last year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Soda_Bread


    Would there not be a seperate thread for the tipping competition?

    If not

    Overall

    1. P. Caffola
    2. A. Goss
    3. C. O'Donnell

    R1

    Andrey win

    Keenan draw

    A. O'Gorman draw


    edit for misspelling

    Post edited by Soda_Bread on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    R1

    Alice draw

    Ivanov win

    Liu win



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    Would agree that we should probably split this into a new thread and have some rules..

    Tipping:

    1. Kanyamarala
    2. O'Donnell, Baburin, TOG

    Best U2100s: Alice and Keenan

    Andrey win

    Keenan win

    A. O'Gorman draw



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭EnPassant


    Prediction for R1

    Draws for Anthony Fox, Andrey Ivanov and Jason Liu

    Overall: 1. Tarun Kanyamarala 2: Conor O'Donnell 3:Colm Daly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    Update from the venue: "all boards wired and ready for main event, Weekender going smoothly too." Not sure chess24 will carry it but it'll be on all the other websites I would guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭macelligott


    What’s going on with Round 3, board 5 (Carroll v Daly)?

    strange clock times and 1-0 after 18 moves.

    something strange 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    Board 1 is O'Donnell - O'Gorman from yesterday too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭corkcitychess


    I believe this years winner will be one of the young guns...that rules out the golden oldies....Baburin, Daly, Ryan and all the others aged 50 plus.


    apparently according to statistics ones peak chess playing strength is achieved around the age of 36.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    RUBBISH and Ignorance. Tournament is wide open. Last year it was won by Mark Heidenfeld!

    6 round to go. Tarun is currently playing great. preparing well , catchig out Baburin and Daly in the opening and bagging two well deserved wins. but has yet to play 5 peer opponents and 1 potentially still difficult game. If Henry Li wins today and Baburin wins who knows how it might go.

    The overs 50s trio of

    Baburin, Ryan, Daly

    V

    the two trios of either

    A - O Gorman, Tarun, O Donell

    B O Gorman, Tarun , Henry Li

    Will, I venture to say, see Team over 50s have more points at the end!

    So far Tarun is the only one to have beaten 2 over 50s, and has yet to play Ryan, whom he lost to the only time they played in the 2019 Irish ch.

    If Baburin can recover and not lose today (most likely a draw I guess- as is the case when most of the top 6-7 play each other.) then the 5 remaining games and rounds will throw up all manner of twists and turns. Tarun is clearly the player of the moment wuiith a great start, so far, but with 6 more games to be played none will be easy.

    Predictions and fantasy wishful thinking and projections are funny but objectively best made around round 8- start of round 9. The nonsense of this ageism displays an ignorance of the history of the event and the experience of the actual ex champs of which 3 are over 50s and just one is under 23. Also worth noting that the top seed almost never wins the Irish ch. It is very rare, so a bet on the number 3 seed is now clearly a reasonable punt.

    All can change in an instance and one mistake can alter the course of events swiftly and dramatically.

    Over 50s Forever! The legends stumble on till the end. When the fat lady sings all will be revealed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭zeitnot


    Five ex champions over 50 are playing, spidersweb, not three.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    So what?


    I never mentioned Keogh and Doyle they are over 70s! Lets not streetch things too much eh.


    Tom O Gorman is the only other player to have actually done it! Looking good for Tarun as he had another impressive and deserved win. He still has to play COD, ex champ Ryan and ex champ Tom O Gorman along with maybe Flynn and O Carroll who are no push overs.


    On balance however it is looking so much better with this very big win today. Will almost certaintly play Tom and COD within the next two rounds.

    At which point he will either be in an even more commanding position or, well, we dont know. Imagine two losses ? Bingo and it's all to play for.

    Around rd 8, 9 or maybe 7 it will be much easier to make confident predictions and guess who will win it after 9 rounds, yes its a 9 round event!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭corkcitychess


    Thanks for that Zeitnot...also today sees some interesting clashes in the over 50's group with ex champions Ryan and Baburin on board 3 and furter down on board 5 , ex champion Daly playing the Current reigning over 50's champion O' Connell .

    In '21 and '22 , O' Connell won the title ahead of Daly and won their individual encounter earlier this year. Difficult to call...maybe O' Connell a slight favourite especially as he has the white pieces....but if I was to guess I would say draws in both games.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭zeitnot




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭RooksPawn


    Actually Gerry O'Connell is not the reigning 50+ champion. He won in 2021 but this year he lost out on head-to-head tiebreak to Gareth Annesley from the North.

    There were live board problems earlier but O'Connell v Daly is now transmitting live.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭RooksPawn


    Tom v Tarun tomorrow in round 6 will possibly decide the title. Board 2 is Baburin v O'Donnell.

    If Tom doesn't win tomorrow then Tarun is strong favourite because he is half a point ahead and has already played everyone else who is a danger to him (draws v O'Donnell and Li; wins v Daly and Baburin).

    Even if Tom wins tomorrow (which he may well do) he still has a couple of other strong rivals to play whereas Tarun will have winnable games in all the last three rounds, even with Black.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    Tarun beat Henry, no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    Always amusing, and yet in a way depressing or at least feels absurd, to see the various levels of such ignorance and wishful thinking projections, plus factually incorrect, or even clueless comments, assertions from people who know and understand so little about topics they are so keen to pretend to have a clue about or a genuine interest in.


    I suppose it is just the nature of these things that whereas the real chess enthusiasts like to talk and think in terms of interesting games, nice moves, great moves, blunders, strategy, tactics, great clashes, great battles and who played what opening and who had shown interesting ideas and plans etc, well the borderline functionally illiterate (in chess terms ) and malcontents seem to prefer to engage in mindless , infantile stuff that betrays any real interest in chess matters.


    Nothing wrong with being so ignorant and understanding so little about chess and a national championships like this. On the contrary it can be an excellent way to absorb, learn and enjoy so much that is positive offer from the best of Irish chess.

    Overwhelmingly the players that actually play in Irish championships, and give up 9 days to play such a tough event, invariably also enjoy and appreciate the chess festival and feast of competition that this annual event brings.

    As regards example of the ignorance on display, a few comments underscore this.

    The chap that did win the title of over 50 champ for 2022, Gareth Annesly beat Daly in the very last round when in a chaotic time scramble that Daly refused several forced draws, when an exchange down, but chasing a King in the open, and failed to play a mate in 3 and then overlooked a forced draw even after missing the mate. Gareth was among the first to declare how lucky he was, though in truth he had played a great game earlier and had a winning position from the opening and a draw overall would have been a nice result, not out of place. Both players refused forced draws as Daly needed to win for outright first and a draw for joint first. Gareth needed to win, and he did!

    In the case of the previous year 2021 Gerard did indeed win the over 50s title after he beat Jonathan O Connor in the last (5th) round. Having avoided playing Daly, who after drawing against Jonathan O Connor in rd 4 (and very lucky to do so considering Jonathan was winning at one point) ended with 4.5 out of 5 to take outright second, which was indeed an embarrassing abject failure for Daly

    Whereas Gerard, having not played any other of the top seeds (Gerry Macelligot, Tim Harding as Daly did) in the event, managed to take advantage of a one move huge blunder that lost a whole rook in the ending and took the position from minus 7 (had gone from around minus 3,4,5,6 for many of the preceding moves after Gerard being lost all the way from the opening) to plus 11 in one move. All while when both in a time scramble. The tactic was nice and funny and no less amazing than the fantasy thinking you offer.

    In the game that Gerad did play and beat Daly in the 2022 over 50s earlier this year? He was also much worse and lost for the vast majority of the game until a blunder made the position go from winning to equal and then another huge blunder straight away losing on the spot and making the position minus 6 or thereabouts. With resignation following not long after.

    Curious and well taken by Gerard. Especially considering that it was the first time in about 30 yeas that Gerard had defeated Daly. Every other game has been draws or wins (mostly by some distance) for Daly, but of course that is not relevant for making uninformed predictions and engaging in manifest wishful thinking and delusional notions as offered.

    The normal state of affairs was very smoothly restored with a decent and satisfying demolition of Gerards game in Rd5, even though there were a couple of inaccuracies by Daly in an otherwise impressive enough game, or at leats that is according to those who congratulated Daly on playing a lovely game and whom enjoy chess! A very interestintg oversightin the game was when Black played Ng4?! as after White olay responds with h3, Black could not hhave played the intended Nxf2 on account of Rd5! Otherwise good for Black if he had played Nd7 instead with the same idea of f5.

    Yes there are some genuine chess enthusiasts alright who can park their malice and revel in just the chess.Pity we don't see it much here though, even with the help of engines these days it should be possible get an idea of the key moments and ideas of the layers in the games.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    The armchair wishful thinking and badly informed, or just another chess illiterate punter offering up more of the usual rubbish that confirms the lack of chess knowledge of the game, the event itself and the players is hilarious in a quirky way

    The event is wide open still and while Tarun is to be favoured if one had to bet, I would not advise making any such bet. As with the rubbish wishful thinking predictions from last year, in which it was claimed that Tom all but had it wrapped up LOL. This year it is still a 9 round event not a 4 or 6 or 7 no 9 round tournament. How you end not how you start that matters. Any of the top 7 could lose 2 games or from the next 4 rounds.

    In the case of Rd6 Bd1 result? It won’t decide the title as there will be rounds 7,8 and 9 after that!

    In the case that Tarun loses he wont be leading the tournament any more! While it is also true that he will have played 5 of possible 6 peer opponents from the top 7,( and of whom only players from that group were ever liable to be ever a serious contender.) he will have within the last three rounds, to play Joe Ryan who has beaten him (comfortably) the only they have played which was in the 2019 Irish,yes Tarrun is stronger now but he will do very well to beat Joe and even draw. Joe was winning today and made a mess of things at critical moments. Can happen to any of the top 7 players.

    Peter Caroll and Jacob Flynn while less likely to avoid defeat against Tarun are no pushovers. And with pressure, nerves and closing phase jitters it would be crazy to assume anything with confidence after just 5 rounds played.

    If Tarun draws, he will be just maybe half a point ahead of 1 or up to 3 players with three rounds left.

    Baburin or COD probably most likely to draw and COD has never beaten him and has lost to Baburin at least once since being one of our best. Could go any way and if one looks at the fact that Baburin was winning against Tom but also went wrong and allowed a draw it is a 3 result game, I suspect that COD might be the slight favourite to be the one who wins, but would not bet a penny on the result.

    The case of Tom is a curious one, as I think that aside from the poor (relatively speaking) game he survived against Baburin he has been actually impressive (better than lsst year and stronger) and playing very well and in a clever way. Ho does have a tough run in in the last 3 with Daly, Ryan and Henry Li being possible opponent where in such games draws are fine resulkts and wins a big bonus. The splitting of points between the top contenders or a loss/win here or there can change things greatly.

    How and if Ryan recovers may also be pivotal as though less likely to win it now with 6,5 (3 wins in a row) he may well decide who is the winner. Henry Li too likewise perhaps? Plenty to see yet.

    The rd6 pairing on paper also looks very nice for Daly (though Sean Murphy showed Tom last year how fatal an assumption it can be when writing of the much lower rated layer.) as instead of laying 4 peer players in the last 4 rounds now only 3 such peer opponents is possible. COD, Baburin, Tom or Henry Li. Beating any of these three in a row is unlikely but far from impossible- losing to 2 is all possible but so is winning 1 or 2 and drawing one or two.

    When rd 8 starts we will perhaps be in far stronger position to actually guess a more likely winner. Not now though. Rd 6 and 7 will be huge.



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