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Irish Championship 2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 macadamiasweep

    Tipping Competition

    1st Kanyamarala,Tarun

    2nd Flynn, Jacob

    3rd Cafolla, Peter

    u2100 grading prize, Oisin O Cuileanain,Andrey Ivanov

    round 1:

    Ivanov Draw

    Keenan win

    O Cuileanain draw

  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ zeitnot

    Is there a link for live boards? The tournament page Chess24 link points to last year's championship.


    1. Kanyamarala
    2. O'Donnell
    3. Baburin

    I won't enter the tipping competition this time--did too badly last year.

  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Soda_Bread

    Would there not be a seperate thread for the tipping competition?

    If not


    1. P. Caffola
    2. A. Goss
    3. C. O'Donnell


    Andrey win

    Keenan draw

    A. O'Gorman draw

    edit for misspelling

    Post edited by Soda_Bread on

  • Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭ checknraise


    Alice draw

    Ivanov win

    Liu win

  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭ Retd.LoyolaCpt

    Would agree that we should probably split this into a new thread and have some rules..


    1. Kanyamarala
    2. O'Donnell, Baburin, TOG

    Best U2100s: Alice and Keenan

    Andrey win

    Keenan win

    A. O'Gorman draw

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  • Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭ EnPassant

    Prediction for R1

    Draws for Anthony Fox, Andrey Ivanov and Jason Liu

    Overall: 1. Tarun Kanyamarala 2: Conor O'Donnell 3:Colm Daly

  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭ Retd.LoyolaCpt

    Update from the venue: "all boards wired and ready for main event, Weekender going smoothly too." Not sure chess24 will carry it but it'll be on all the other websites I would guess.

  • Registered Users Posts: 361 ✭✭ macelligott

    What’s going on with Round 3, board 5 (Carroll v Daly)?

    strange clock times and 1-0 after 18 moves.

    something strange 🙄

  • Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭ checknraise

    Board 1 is O'Donnell - O'Gorman from yesterday too.

  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭ corkcitychess

    I believe this years winner will be one of the young guns...that rules out the golden oldies....Baburin, Daly, Ryan and all the others aged 50 plus.

    apparently according to statistics ones peak chess playing strength is achieved around the age of 36.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭ spidersweb

    RUBBISH and Ignorance. Tournament is wide open. Last year it was won by Mark Heidenfeld!

    6 round to go. Tarun is currently playing great. preparing well , catchig out Baburin and Daly in the opening and bagging two well deserved wins. but has yet to play 5 peer opponents and 1 potentially still difficult game. If Henry Li wins today and Baburin wins who knows how it might go.

    The overs 50s trio of

    Baburin, Ryan, Daly


    the two trios of either

    A - O Gorman, Tarun, O Donell

    B O Gorman, Tarun , Henry Li

    Will, I venture to say, see Team over 50s have more points at the end!

    So far Tarun is the only one to have beaten 2 over 50s, and has yet to play Ryan, whom he lost to the only time they played in the 2019 Irish ch.

    If Baburin can recover and not lose today (most likely a draw I guess- as is the case when most of the top 6-7 play each other.) then the 5 remaining games and rounds will throw up all manner of twists and turns. Tarun is clearly the player of the moment wuiith a great start, so far, but with 6 more games to be played none will be easy.

    Predictions and fantasy wishful thinking and projections are funny but objectively best made around round 8- start of round 9. The nonsense of this ageism displays an ignorance of the history of the event and the experience of the actual ex champs of which 3 are over 50s and just one is under 23. Also worth noting that the top seed almost never wins the Irish ch. It is very rare, so a bet on the number 3 seed is now clearly a reasonable punt.

    All can change in an instance and one mistake can alter the course of events swiftly and dramatically.

    Over 50s Forever! The legends stumble on till the end. When the fat lady sings all will be revealed.

  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ zeitnot

    Five ex champions over 50 are playing, spidersweb, not three.

  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭ spidersweb

    So what?

    I never mentioned Keogh and Doyle they are over 70s! Lets not streetch things too much eh.

    Tom O Gorman is the only other player to have actually done it! Looking good for Tarun as he had another impressive and deserved win. He still has to play COD, ex champ Ryan and ex champ Tom O Gorman along with maybe Flynn and O Carroll who are no push overs.

    On balance however it is looking so much better with this very big win today. Will almost certaintly play Tom and COD within the next two rounds.

    At which point he will either be in an even more commanding position or, well, we dont know. Imagine two losses ? Bingo and it's all to play for.

    Around rd 8, 9 or maybe 7 it will be much easier to make confident predictions and guess who will win it after 9 rounds, yes its a 9 round event!

  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭ corkcitychess

    Thanks for that Zeitnot...also today sees some interesting clashes in the over 50's group with ex champions Ryan and Baburin on board 3 and furter down on board 5 , ex champion Daly playing the Current reigning over 50's champion O' Connell .

    In '21 and '22 , O' Connell won the title ahead of Daly and won their individual encounter earlier this year. Difficult to call...maybe O' Connell a slight favourite especially as he has the white pieces....but if I was to guess I would say draws in both games.

  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ zeitnot

  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭ RooksPawn

    Actually Gerry O'Connell is not the reigning 50+ champion. He won in 2021 but this year he lost out on head-to-head tiebreak to Gareth Annesley from the North.

    There were live board problems earlier but O'Connell v Daly is now transmitting live.

  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭ RooksPawn

    Tom v Tarun tomorrow in round 6 will possibly decide the title. Board 2 is Baburin v O'Donnell.

    If Tom doesn't win tomorrow then Tarun is strong favourite because he is half a point ahead and has already played everyone else who is a danger to him (draws v O'Donnell and Li; wins v Daly and Baburin).

    Even if Tom wins tomorrow (which he may well do) he still has a couple of other strong rivals to play whereas Tarun will have winnable games in all the last three rounds, even with Black.

  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭ Retd.LoyolaCpt

    Tarun beat Henry, no?

  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭ spidersweb

    Always amusing, and yet in a way depressing or at least feels absurd, to see the various levels of such ignorance and wishful thinking projections, plus factually incorrect, or even clueless comments, assertions from people who know and understand so little about topics they are so keen to pretend to have a clue about or a genuine interest in.

    I suppose it is just the nature of these things that whereas the real chess enthusiasts like to talk and think in terms of interesting games, nice moves, great moves, blunders, strategy, tactics, great clashes, great battles and who played what opening and who had shown interesting ideas and plans etc, well the borderline functionally illiterate (in chess terms ) and malcontents seem to prefer to engage in mindless , infantile stuff that betrays any real interest in chess matters.

    Nothing wrong with being so ignorant and understanding so little about chess and a national championships like this. On the contrary it can be an excellent way to absorb, learn and enjoy so much that is positive offer from the best of Irish chess.

    Overwhelmingly the players that actually play in Irish championships, and give up 9 days to play such a tough event, invariably also enjoy and appreciate the chess festival and feast of competition that this annual event brings.

    As regards example of the ignorance on display, a few comments underscore this.

    The chap that did win the title of over 50 champ for 2022, Gareth Annesly beat Daly in the very last round when in a chaotic time scramble that Daly refused several forced draws, when an exchange down, but chasing a King in the open, and failed to play a mate in 3 and then overlooked a forced draw even after missing the mate. Gareth was among the first to declare how lucky he was, though in truth he had played a great game earlier and had a winning position from the opening and a draw overall would have been a nice result, not out of place. Both players refused forced draws as Daly needed to win for outright first and a draw for joint first. Gareth needed to win, and he did!

    In the case of the previous year 2021 Gerard did indeed win the over 50s title after he beat Jonathan O Connor in the last (5th) round. Having avoided playing Daly, who after drawing against Jonathan O Connor in rd 4 (and very lucky to do so considering Jonathan was winning at one point) ended with 4.5 out of 5 to take outright second, which was indeed an embarrassing abject failure for Daly

    Whereas Gerard, having not played any other of the top seeds (Gerry Macelligot, Tim Harding as Daly did) in the event, managed to take advantage of a one move huge blunder that lost a whole rook in the ending and took the position from minus 7 (had gone from around minus 3,4,5,6 for many of the preceding moves after Gerard being lost all the way from the opening) to plus 11 in one move. All while when both in a time scramble. The tactic was nice and funny and no less amazing than the fantasy thinking you offer.

    In the game that Gerad did play and beat Daly in the 2022 over 50s earlier this year? He was also much worse and lost for the vast majority of the game until a blunder made the position go from winning to equal and then another huge blunder straight away losing on the spot and making the position minus 6 or thereabouts. With resignation following not long after.

    Curious and well taken by Gerard. Especially considering that it was the first time in about 30 yeas that Gerard had defeated Daly. Every other game has been draws or wins (mostly by some distance) for Daly, but of course that is not relevant for making uninformed predictions and engaging in manifest wishful thinking and delusional notions as offered.

    The normal state of affairs was very smoothly restored with a decent and satisfying demolition of Gerards game in Rd5, even though there were a couple of inaccuracies by Daly in an otherwise impressive enough game, or at leats that is according to those who congratulated Daly on playing a lovely game and whom enjoy chess! A very interestintg oversightin the game was when Black played Ng4?! as after White olay responds with h3, Black could not hhave played the intended Nxf2 on account of Rd5! Otherwise good for Black if he had played Nd7 instead with the same idea of f5.

    Yes there are some genuine chess enthusiasts alright who can park their malice and revel in just the chess.Pity we don't see it much here though, even with the help of engines these days it should be possible get an idea of the key moments and ideas of the layers in the games.

  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭ spidersweb

    The armchair wishful thinking and badly informed, or just another chess illiterate punter offering up more of the usual rubbish that confirms the lack of chess knowledge of the game, the event itself and the players is hilarious in a quirky way

    The event is wide open still and while Tarun is to be favoured if one had to bet, I would not advise making any such bet. As with the rubbish wishful thinking predictions from last year, in which it was claimed that Tom all but had it wrapped up LOL. This year it is still a 9 round event not a 4 or 6 or 7 no 9 round tournament. How you end not how you start that matters. Any of the top 7 could lose 2 games or from the next 4 rounds.

    In the case of Rd6 Bd1 result? It won’t decide the title as there will be rounds 7,8 and 9 after that!

    In the case that Tarun loses he wont be leading the tournament any more! While it is also true that he will have played 5 of possible 6 peer opponents from the top 7,( and of whom only players from that group were ever liable to be ever a serious contender.) he will have within the last three rounds, to play Joe Ryan who has beaten him (comfortably) the only they have played which was in the 2019 Irish,yes Tarrun is stronger now but he will do very well to beat Joe and even draw. Joe was winning today and made a mess of things at critical moments. Can happen to any of the top 7 players.

    Peter Caroll and Jacob Flynn while less likely to avoid defeat against Tarun are no pushovers. And with pressure, nerves and closing phase jitters it would be crazy to assume anything with confidence after just 5 rounds played.

    If Tarun draws, he will be just maybe half a point ahead of 1 or up to 3 players with three rounds left.

    Baburin or COD probably most likely to draw and COD has never beaten him and has lost to Baburin at least once since being one of our best. Could go any way and if one looks at the fact that Baburin was winning against Tom but also went wrong and allowed a draw it is a 3 result game, I suspect that COD might be the slight favourite to be the one who wins, but would not bet a penny on the result.

    The case of Tom is a curious one, as I think that aside from the poor (relatively speaking) game he survived against Baburin he has been actually impressive (better than lsst year and stronger) and playing very well and in a clever way. Ho does have a tough run in in the last 3 with Daly, Ryan and Henry Li being possible opponent where in such games draws are fine resulkts and wins a big bonus. The splitting of points between the top contenders or a loss/win here or there can change things greatly.

    How and if Ryan recovers may also be pivotal as though less likely to win it now with 6,5 (3 wins in a row) he may well decide who is the winner. Henry Li too likewise perhaps? Plenty to see yet.

    The rd6 pairing on paper also looks very nice for Daly (though Sean Murphy showed Tom last year how fatal an assumption it can be when writing of the much lower rated layer.) as instead of laying 4 peer players in the last 4 rounds now only 3 such peer opponents is possible. COD, Baburin, Tom or Henry Li. Beating any of these three in a row is unlikely but far from impossible- losing to 2 is all possible but so is winning 1 or 2 and drawing one or two.

    When rd 8 starts we will perhaps be in far stronger position to actually guess a more likely winner. Not now though. Rd 6 and 7 will be huge.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭ corkcitychess

    I am predicting Tom O' Gorman will win the championship!

    just my opinion of course 😀

  • Registered Users Posts: 361 ✭✭ macelligott

    For the “older generation” who might be interesting in playing on a Team in Dresden at the end of October see:

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭ sodacat11

    I can't help but with agree with spidersweb regarding some of the things he says about the clueless keyboard warriors who have never played in an Irish Championship and never will yet they are the very people who voted for the diluted version of the Irish Championship that we now have. People who aren't qualified to play in an Irish Ch should have no say whatsoever on how it is run any more than I should be allowed decide how Wimbledon or the All Ireland hurling championship is structured.

    When I first qualified to play in an Irish championship some 42 years ago I had to win the Leinster Championship to get my rating high enough. Nowadays any kid with a K factor of 40 can have a couple of decent results giving him a 1700 rating and he's in. It isn't even that difficult in truth since people with vested interests can nominate anyone on all sorts of vague grounds.

    I've been a regular entrant for the Irish Ch over the years and it always used to be THE ultimate test in Irish chess because for 9 rounds you would NEVER play anyone rated under 1900, i.e players who had proven themselves to be very near or over the "expert" level. A few years ago this all changed because a rich sponsor came in. This sponsor was the parent of a very good young player who was over 1900 but his son had a friend who was well below this threshold. The sponsor insisted that his son's friend be allowed to play and the Controller who was getting free hotel accommodation for himself and his Mrs agreed. This was the first leak in the dam. We then had a couple of farcical opens where the winner wasn't necessarily the Irish Champions at all and where in fact in one of the years the "Irish Champion" got the title without playing most of his rivals. During these years I alone kicked up about what was happening to my beloved Irish Championship even though many players I spoke to shared my views. The result was that the qualification criteria was voted on at an AGM by the very pedantic pawn pushers that spidersweb criticizes and, as always happens when committee type people get involved , everyone wanted to put their piece in ( remember that a camel is a horse designed by a committee) and now we have this glorified Irish Open where you can get in as soon as you learn the en passant rule and how to castle queenside.

    I have loved competing in the Irish Championship over the years so it will sadden me if this is my last but it really annoys me as a true chess lover to see what it has become where standards are reduced to the lowest common denominator so that everyone can play.

    The championship has been held for 101 years and for most of that time tradition was respected and revered but not any longer. There is a magnificent trophy for the winner with the names of all the past worthy champions engraved on it, maybe now it is time for that trophy to be retired, the tournament to be renamed The Irish Open and for everyone who plays in it be given a little plastic replica instead.

  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ zeitnot

    The 1900 cutoff wasn't always absolutely strictly enforced, but it's true that exceptions seem to have expanded a bit.

    1978--1 player out of 23 below 1900 (1889)

    1988--3 players out of 21 below 1900 (lowest 1805)

    1998--3 players out of 20 below 1900 (lowest 1859)

    This year, it's 4 out of 24 starters, lowest 1746.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭ sodacat11

    I'd have no problem if the rating floor was reduced to 1850 or even 1800 once it was STRICTLY observed with NO exceptions. 1746 is a bridge too far and don't forget there is a 1624 in it now to even up the numbers when it would have made much more sense to drop the 1746 out since he was never qualified to play in the first place.

  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭ Retd.LoyolaCpt

    I only really want to quote the line there about those who haven't qualified should have no say in it. If we're allowed to silence particular groups of people, I would like to extend that to all those who haven't organised an Irish should keep stum about how the organisers implement the rules that are set out by AGMs. Not that I'm organising this year's event, and not that I'm actually advocating for this - but if you're playing the hypothetical game, I will too.

    As I remember, as I was there, the latest rules for wildcards were based on your motion which went through with amendments (edit).

    Although I wasn't there for your first Irish in 1980, I can see from the IRLchess report that 20% of the field had a rating.

    One of the players on the list has never had a fide over 1800, one player is now a Scot. No report there yet for 1981 but 1982? A French player (looking at only FIDE data available - YOBs seem to match) never rated above 1600, 2 other players rated under 1900 Irish permitted entry (no FIDEs). The next report is for 1988: 3 players under 1900 - one of whom did very well. The next report available with ICU ratings, 1994: A 1689 and another sub 1900.

    Present day: 2017: 1 sub 1900 who evened numbers. 2018: 5 sub 1900s at the time of the event but 3 of whom were 1900+ when they were entered and another who finished with a 2200+ RP. 2019: 1 player sub 1900 who evened numbers and was over 1900 that year. 2020: during a pandemic no less; 5 under 1900. 3 of whom had been over 1900, another who finished 8th out of 32 and one who was brought in for 1 round to avoid byes. 2021 again during a massive covid wave which led to 10 pullouts in the last week: 5 under 1900: 2 were 1900+ when they entered. 2 were carried as subs in round 1 when someone pulled out after the draw was made - so rather than re-paid the entire event on short notice, we added a second sub and carried that sub with the plan that either would drop out if covid cost us more players. One of the subs was given byes in three of the last 5 rounds to account for traveling byes.

    On quick review of these players I see: 1 2200, 1 2140, 1 2075, 1 2050, 1 1981, 1 1913, 1 1887, 1 1830 and the remainder are/were subs.

    Standards haven't dropped one iota in my view. Compare the last 5 years to any other 10 year spell and there's more top players in those fields than in any comparable decade. I won't make any apologies for myself or Ivan in any of the above nor will I take it lightly that you disparage these entrants based on a story from (i'm guessing as I don't know) 15 years ago? None of these players bought their way in - they've had at best a quarter of the events to get a rating in the last 2.5 years and if we feel they're on the cusp and would have got to 1900 under normal circumstances, then we may offer them a wildcard; that in my view is the purpose of a wildcard. I'm glad you continue to play but don't bring feelings to a facts fight.

    Post edited by Retd.LoyolaCpt on

  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭ RooksPawn

  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭ corkcitychess

    Well said Retd.....

    Soda...we all know your feelings on this issue but it is time to give it a rest....everyone should be grateful to the 1746 for playing to even up the numbers in the first is ridiculous to even think that half way through an event it would in anyway be morally acceptable to drop a player out of an event not to mention totally illegal and unenforceable (unless said 1746 player were offered a big brown envelope with wads of cash to do so) Now we should all be grateful for the 1624 player standing in as a filler as no wants a forced day off in a 9 day event...especially any player that has travelled from a long way or overseas.

    Soda...good luck in your remaining games.

  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭ RooksPawn

    If he wins today, it is a possibility. If he doesn't there is only one winner.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭ zeitnot

    Irish championships attract strong opinions all round! It's good that anyone cares.

    The last few years have been outstanding: the run of championships starting in 2017 has been the best ever, in my view. (As opposed to, say, 2016: two players over 2200 on either list, another two over 2100, one of them just barely.)

    For 1980, many more players must have had ratings, but finding the old lists is not that easy. Sometimes newspapers listed the top 10-20 players in the country, but that was it. Full lists are available for 1978, 1988, and 1998, and a few others. (Some old lists are newly available, but the reports have not yet been updated.)

    I am not sure who the Scot was in 1980: I think all those players were Irish. (Guy Lyons is now registered as SCO, but he only moved there around 1983.)

    Similarly, I'm not sure who the French player was in 1982. I think all those players were born in Ireland.

    Without expressing an opinion on the latest rules for wildcards (and I was not there), I think they come from the 2018 AGM, where motion 2 (strict application of 1900 on some list in the same calendar year) was defeated, and instead a modified version of motion 1 (ICU executive), with the current statement of wildcards (2 ICU, 1 organisers, Irish Women's, 50+, 65+ champions and all previous winners), was accepted.