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Irish Championship 2022

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  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    Not sure what has happened there, I guess somebody has messed up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    Perfectly reasonable opinion and guess. Poor prediction at that stage though. Now as actually predicted, Tom will face Daly with Black in the last round needing to win and hope that as also predicted Ryan playing Tarun ion the last round Ryan can keep his 100% record of winning (1) against Tarun.

    Rd8 and or Rd9 were excellent points to try make predictions. My guess is that Tarun draws (securing victory) Tom losing (or drawing) and Baburin wnning with top 3 being 1 Tarun, 2 Baburin (or and Tom), 3 Tom, 4 Daly, Henry Li?


    Overall (luck notwithstadning-all winners need some luck) Tarun was the most deseving and impressive overall. Even if Joe beats him.

    Not a great Irish ch, but a good or very good Irish ch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    Not the fault or concern of the player herself. Hope she wins the grading prize actually. However the notion of her participating in the Irish ch in clear violation of the rules is just pure BONKERS!

    I suspect it is another case of the insidous virus that we see so prevalent now as VIRTUE SIGNALLING road to hell paved with good intentions and feelings over facts winning out.

    Lesson learned is the make sure it can never hapen again with no excuses.

    Nobody messed up eiither, in the sense they done exactly what they intended and wanted to do. Simple apology and an assurance it won't ever hapen again and all should be forgiven?



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    Nobody messed up? Well somebody obviously did.

    Lets wait to see the ICU explanations before jumping to conclusions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess


    Spiders web quote "Nobody messed up eiither, in the sense they done exactly what they intended and wanted to do. Simple apology and an assurance it won't ever hapen again and all should be forgiven?"


    agreed with the caveat....

    Nobody messed up eiither, in the sense they done exactly what they intended and wanted to do. Simple apology and an assurance it won't ever happen again and 6 lashes of the whip for whoever was at fault and all should be forgiven?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I can't say that I have any objection to Diana Mats playing, especially since she is Ukrainian, as her rating is over 1900 but it does show that once you start making autocratic decisions and straying from the ICU Constitution you leave yourself open to criticism.

    I am still awaiting an answer as to how FIVE under 1900 players were admitted to the Championship when there is only provision within the rules for THREE.

    As to RCL's arrogant suggestion that players can always request a bye to avoid playing the illegal entrants I ask WHY should legitimately playing ICU members who have paid over 100 euro to play (plus another 100 on petrol) have to take a bye and miss a round (which incidentally lessens their chances of winning prizes) to avoid someone who shouldn't even be in the tournament in the first place?

    We never had any problem when the rating floor was simply 1900 so why are we now even entertaining this new system which apart from being completely abused by the ICU itself caused nothing but controversy and division?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I am pretty certain that RCL said at the time that the Arbiter's pick was only there to even up numbers. It would make even more sense just not to allot two ICU wildcards in the first place when it would mean that there would be an uneven number.



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    Tarun assured of equal first after a dominant performance. Can't think of any game where he was in serious trouble.

    Tom's game yesterday was clinical. Taking a big risk in the opening thought to be losing by force or at best just bad for black. Tom does seem to be playing around with his playing style quite a bit which will only help him long term. Based on yesterday's game still much stronger in an open and sharp positions.

    Both look to be in good form with the olympiad coming up soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess


    Soda...quote..."I can't say that I have any objection to Diana Mats playing, especially since she is Ukrainian"

    It is a closed national championships period.... I do not care what country she comes from and for the same reason I would not let the pope or Jesus (if he came back from the dead) enter either unless their fed was IRL.

    doh.......some people.....give me a break.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Yes a fully deserved title for Tarun who has not really been troubled throughout. He is practically a full time chess players these days, being coached and playing more chess annually than most pros so it will be no surprise if he becomes Ireland's first home grown GM soon.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    IF the rules have to be broken then I'd sooner have 100 over 1900 rated players from anywhere in the world playing than even one player rated 17 something like we have this year.

    I agree with your point but haven't Ukrainian players been given free ICU membership already?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    "It is a closed national championships period"

    NO, it's not. It used to be and indeed it is supposed to be but now it is just an open. I've even been writing Irish Open instead of Irish Championship on my scoresheets every day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess


    It is supposed to be a closed national championship....but it is not this year because of the organisers allowing one non IRL player to enter.


    also....I agree with your point but haven't Ukrainian players been given free ICU membership already?

    yes but ICU membership does not allow anyone to play in the national championship...I am sure there are plenty of cases of ICU members that are not IRL registered.


    anyway from the ICU constitution / and eligibility rules at the tip top of the entry requirements....


    General

    1. It is a condition of entry to the Irish Championship that all players accept these terms and conditions.
    2. All participants must be current members of the ​Irish Chess Union (​ICU​) and all entrants to the main week-long event must be registered as IRL with FIDE. Non-IRL players are permitted to entered the other events but may not claim the title of "Irish Champion" in any section. The titles will be awarded to the highest placed IRL player. Prize money will be awarded as stated with no distinction between IRL and non-IRL.


    6 lashes of the whip and all will be forgiven.



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    @corkcitychess is quite right, so we await the explanation from the ICU

    btw congrats to Tarun in winning I think his first Irish? It was a dominating performance where he successfully exploited the errors of his opponents quite ruthlessly



  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Eugene Donohoe


    Congrats to Tarun on his winning The Irish Championship. Thanks to all the players for their games. I thoroughly enjoyed playing through them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭RooksPawn


    Congrats to Tarun for a dominant performance, justifying the faith of the Olympiad selection committee.

    Board order for the olympiad will be an interesting decision now. Alex should probably be board 1 as usual since he has the experience and GM title (and held Karjakin to a draw last time) but maybe Tarun on board 2 to optimise his GM norm chances and because he is clearly on form.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    Yes there is simply no excuse or justification for this choice and executive decison. None! 9 days of events that could have seen the player participate in many events. Allowing her (or inviting as I suspect) was wrong and bonkers. As bad is the way ot was done and the players were presented with a fait accomplii only at the very last moments before the event started. Nothing to do with the young woman herself. It is the gate keepers who are at fault and this should not happen again, we got lucky in that it was not any huge effect on proceedings, but if it had bean a 2700 GM , well.....Point is it should not matter who, Only that they be IRL



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    You are speculating there. Until the ICU clarify we don't know the real situation. Its a strange one mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    We do know as a fact that a player was allowed to play in an event that strictly forbids this player and somebody gave this the ok. As to who and the mechanism yes we don't know yet and maybe never will. Ur right that it should be made known what are the facts, so as to avoid further speculation. For me it is clear this was wrong and no "excuse" would change the fact of it being wrong. Just be useful to know and understand it was allowed to happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    Why do you say "maybe never will". I am sure the ICU will respond to clarify, thats their role and what they do.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess


    looks like the strongest ever team that is going to the Olympiad. It is up to the team captain Carl Jackson to decide the board order...if it was up to me my board order would be

    1 Conor Murphy (rapidly improving and a GM norm already) has played in several GM events and 1 amazing run of 6 draws with 2550+ rated GM opponents

    2 Taran Kanyamarala - Irish Champion!

    3 Alex Baburin

    4 Tom O' Gorman

    5 Mark Heidenfield - 2021 Irish Champion! and gauranteed place on the 2022 Olympiad team


    note boards 1 - 4 all above 2400! and a pretty strong reserve on board 5



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    Surely the team with Baburin(2600), Kelly, Quinn and Collins were much stronger. Did they not beat Poland.

    Board order wise it makes sense for Baburin to be 1. He's ultra solid and experienced and can pick up lots of draws vs other countries top players.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Good strong team but unlikely to perform much above its ranking. I'm just surprised that we don't have any 1700 rated players on it to encourage the youngsters etc etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess


    I think you are getting your results mixed up somewhere.....the team that beat Poland ...arguably Ireland's best ever result was board 1 Kelly (win) board 2 Daly (win) board 3 Mark Heidenfield (draw) and Gerry O' Connell lost a hard fought game

    link here: https://www.olimpbase.org/1998/1998irl.html

    a very long time ago....24 years ago!

    Post edited by corkcitychess on


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    If you don't like my posts then don't read them. Go and play with yourself instead



  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Eugene Donohoe


    Very humid today. Looks like some cold showers may be necessary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    The year is 2050, the apocalypse is in full swing, zombies roaming the streets. People desperately seeking refuge in a safe haven. GM Sodacat at the entrance demanding that everyone be a minimum of 1900 FIDE to get access into. Everyone else must perish. It's the rules.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    Surely you don’t mean the team that lost 4-0 to Poland the last time B Kelly played for Ireland in round 1 of the Dresden Olympiad?


    Surely you confuse the time Ireland beat Poland from the 1998 Elista Olympiad with wins for Kelly and Daly against GM s and a draw by M Heidenfeld against a very strong IM (soon after GM)


     Ireland 2304 2½ : 1½ 2554 Poland


    Kelly 2405        1 - 0 2655 GM Krasenkow

    FM Daly 2295      1 - 0 2545 GM Kempiński

    FM Heidenfeld 2335 ½ - ½ 2490 IM Macieja

    O'Connell, G.2180 0 - 1 2525 IM Markowski.


    As regards Baburin being 2600 when playing for Ireland in an Olympiad? Never happened, ever, but he was 2590 at one (Istanbul 2000 = 22 years ago)


    While the rest of his Olympiads are like this:


    Year   Title   Board  Country    Rating - Player Rating Performance

    2018   GM     1      Ireland      2452 - 2425

    2016   GM     1      Ireland      2487 - 2424

    2014   GM    1    Ireland      2502 - 2359   

    2012   Did not take part.

    2010   Did not take part.

    2008   GM    1   Ireland      2544 - 2386

    2006   GM    1   Ireland       2519 - 2459

    2002   GM     1   Ireland       2580 - 2433

    2000   GM     1   Ireland       2590 - 2593

    1998   Did not take part.

    1996   IM    1   Ireland       2545 - 2416


    Board 1 ahead of Tom (higher rated- up and coming), Tarun (Best current form, upcoming), Conor (generally been on the up in a big way for three years, recent GM norm) ?

    Actually yes he should be Bd 1, but not for the reasons (spurious and wrong in respect of overall perfromance- delcining faster every Olympiad in recent years it seems).

    The reason why he should be Bd1 in my view is as follows:. Bd1 player can only play on one board ever for the duration of the event.. He is the most experienced by far and at his best can play against strongest players with more competency than any Irish player when playing well. Draws with Karajakin and MVL in 2018 and 2016 for example, but has to be considered alongside lack lustre results too.


    The key issue is that he should be used for the team selectively and in a clever way. Rested far more than any other player unless there is a player performing espeicaly badly. I would have him play no more than 7-8, max nine games to give the other players more chances to grown in what willbe the first Olympiad for 3 of the 5 man team.

    The risk of players not doing well at their first Olympiad is very real. The three upcoming players should be played and helped in a particular way (sadly the current team cap is clueless and not suited to any such role, which is fine as it is just a social event about networking and politics. He can't be blamed for being "selected" for no good reasons ahead of far more capable people better suited to the role) with a view to gettting the best out of them and encourage them to be focused and determined to bring their best game and enjoy themselves.


    The place of position 5 in the team is easy and obviously M Heidenfeld who wom his place on the team with his excellent Irish ch win last year. Anybody who wins an Irish is fully deserving of a place on the Olynpiad team, likewise Tom O Gorman deserved his automatic place on the teamd despite actually improving and earning a place by rating anyway since his Irish ch win.

    It is a toss up between Tom and Connor Murphy as to who should be in position 4 and 3. Tom is the highest rated of the whole team and just came Jt third in another very strong Irish ch and has been having good results in recent months (year). I would give him the nod for place 3 and have Conor on place 4 just because his excellent purple patch has passed and his recent results have been much less impressive and inconsistent within the last year and a half or thereabouts. Still a great prospect, but we have little to see of recent months by way of the sort of form that otherwise would see him ahead of Tom or and even Tarun. Given that Tom played in the Irish and was competting to win it going into the last few eounds I think he deserves the nod as the likely results/performance of Conor or Tom are hard to be sure of either way.

    Tarun having just won the Irish ch with a great score and clearly on form he is an excellent position 2 player who can be played in place of Alex in all sort of clever ways. If he gets off to a good dtart and doing well then play him as much as possible and when need be or clever, have him on Bd1. Always should depend on how players are doing to decide the team list for each round and Tarun could be a flexible option for Bd1 and Bd2 alternating and depening on variuous considerations like norm posiblities too.

    Sadly interest in this Olympiad is boubnd to eb consiserably less for all sorts of reasons and the notion suggets that this team is the strongest is just absurd. Far from it. Any Irish team at the moment that does not have Sam Collins and Alex Lopez playing for Ireland can't be the strongest. They are still clearly our two strongest players so if we consider that two places were gone for the Olympiad (correctly) in the persons of Tom and Mark with just three places left, had A Lopez and S Collins been playing then the choice would have been between Alex Baburin anbd Conor Murphy and in that case it would surely have gone (at the time of selection) to Conor so the team would have been. S Collins,A Lopez,Tom O, Conor Murphy and Mark Heidenfeld. No less strong than what we have.

    Tarun has now secured his place on the next Olympiad with the 2022 Irish ch win. As winning the Irish ch is so hard to do that even in advance of an Olympiad a player of a certain calibre will be good enough to be on an Olympiad and the form aspect is only about determining the position of the team in any give year along with other considerations.

    Ironically the rotten and to say the least supect choices made of the so called selection committe and process have been of course overlooked in the lull of Covid chess world since 2020. In particular the choice of Tarun over David Fitzsimons was among the most foul I can recall in a while. Same as he was not selected in 2014 arguably.

    Based on the facts and reasons given for the selections made earlier this year. In the case of the last choice between Tarun and David I don't trust or agree wiuth the so called selctions made at that time in many areas, and I would never, for example, apply for any position for an Olympiad with this crowd in. They have made awful choices and shown so much incompetence and weird petty personal bias which they are supposed to rise above. However on account of the fact that hardly anybody cares anymore about such things and we have so many good players it hardly matters who goes and is "selected" while the other non playing positions too are just a junket for buddies and networking.

    Simply not a big deal and of no import really. Only worth mentioning when people ignorantly try not merely getting their own way,but then also try ram it down peoples throat that it was done correctly or well, when it is cealr that is often, orat least sometimes not ther case at all. I mean I don't want to be so critical of any individual and apologize in adavce for that, but the idea that the same team captain would be given the position again is rather silly. If only because there were simply better candidates who applied. I hasten to add I did not apply for any position myself for the 2022 Olympiad in India, and just as it happens you could niot pay me to go to that Olymiad in any capacity. That is just a personal perspective and I admire and respect all, including the current team captains going to this Olympiad. Wish them the very best along with the layers and hope it goes well for all.

    Anyway back to the specifics of the 2022 selections. Sure if we were selecting a team today Tarun would be given the place with little or no arguments. Instead the awful choice to shaft David stinks as usual with politics, personality issues and petty spite to my mind. Open to correction of course.

    Again, this is to judge by the choice made which was reported on the ICU website at the time. They openly admit that David had the higher rating average for selection purposes, but they decided to overrule this fact and instead give the place to Tarun (the lowerrated) because in their words

    "After careful consideration, Tarun Kanyamarala (2319) was selected ahead of David Fitzsimons (2342), mainly due to the former's recent excellent results"

    The dishonest part is that you can't have it every way. At the time Taurn had great results it is true, but he also had huge reversals, bad results, whereas with David there was little change one way or the other. Considering the sheer activity of Tarun and astounding number of games he has played in recent years and during even covid times, the approach would surely be that like a gambling wheel, at whatever poiint they stop and select this will mean either great gains or great losses potentially. In other words at the time they selcted Tarun he was on the lower side and

    So why did they select the lower rated player? I have my suspicions and think they stink but in the overall schem of things nobody really cares and another player gets shafted by petty minded selection committte personality politics and preferences. To be fair they do also do a lot of work and put in time to serve chess also.So don't to overlook the posotives either.


    I don't trust this committe or the last one as a whole myself but it could be much worse and the bad choices made are not of such signifigance other than to those affected. In other words, David losing his Olympiad place as one example, is the price to be paid by him alone.

    On balance either one of them are great additions to the team, the issue is that once again non objective and bias motives or reasons crept in and rendered some of the choices made sour and wrong.


    Again bearing in mind when the selection was made and the circumstances that pertained.

    By their own admission David was ahead at the time, which is oronic because then Tarun race aaheead and then fell back again. The swings that seen him lose or gain plus 50 plus 89 or minus 50 or minus 95 given here, all only confirm that at the time they made their choiuce they only considered the positives for Tarun at the expense of David who at the time the selction was made was ahead and he had played so many less games compared with Tarun. If they were the same rating its agruable either way, but he was behind David and it was more correct to give David the nod. They didn't and I could have predicted they wouldn't for reasons that have nothing to do with good selections being made in good faith. Thst my view and nope cant prove it beyond the arguments and evidence I have offered here.

    If by chance David had played in the Irish ch and done well or won it? Or Tarun had done badly we would have had still relative silence I suspect. The point is that regardless of how deserving and brilliant Taruns Irish ch win is, he should not (curiously enough) have been selected ahead of David on a point or issue of fairness and correct process.


    July 2022   Available -7.6   

    June 2022   Available -0.6   

    May 2022   Available -14.5   

    April 2022   Available 78.4   

    March 2022   Available -17.6   

    February 2022   Available -55   

    January 2022   Available 20.6   

    December 2021   Available 56.4   

    November 2021   Available 11.6   

    October 2021   Available 33.8   

    September 2021   Available -94.4



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  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭spidersweb


    PS sorry about all the TYPOS. Long post lots of little errors but the meaning and intention of the word can be easily guessed.



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