Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

Dempo1 · 21-06-2022 01:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230958#Comment_119230958

When exactly did I say Ireland should house 15 million Ukranians 🤔 Boggles how many times in a day do you miss quote what I and others post , do you just randomly make up responses, thinking no one will notice your silliness. Argue about what I've actually said by all means but don't just make up stuff you want to Argue about , seriously take a break , you must be exhausted 😏

Boggles · 21-06-2022 02:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119231034#Comment_119231034

Go back and read the post you misunderstood again and stop making a show of yourself.

21-06-2022 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230919#Comment_119230919

And why did they return? Because the distance was not great. Look at the research on refugees returning home after a conflict. Those who settle near to their homelands, return, but those who settle far away, don't. It's also important to look at what the political and economic situation is like after the conflict. For a rather long period those returning to the North were gaining better benefits than those available to those in the South. Ukrainians though, would be returning to a corrupt political system, and the economy will continue to be the worst in Europe.

So, there is no realistic comparison between the Irish and Ukrainians...

monseiur · 21-06-2022 02:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119229973#Comment_119229973

Well Boggles, regarding my limited research - a large hotel down the road from me is heaving with Ukrainians for some time now. I chat with them almost daily, some have good English. Two young women have just returned from a 10 day trip back home - they took a flight from Dublin to Poland and coach / train to Kyiv. They accompanied another girlfriend who returned to get married, she plans to stay in Ukraine with her husband as he's not allowed to leave the country but once the travel ban is lifted they plan to return to Ireland to live permanently (if allowed) It was from talking to these women that I became aware of, what they described as, street after street of deserted multi storey apartment blocks & houses undamaged ready to be reoccupied. They described life in the city as near normal but quieter due to decrease of population and the price of certain commodities has gone up with a limited supply of certain goods but there is no shortage of food etc. and all shops, cafes, hardware stores etc. are open. Trains & buses are running as normal, it seems that it was some of the suburbs that took the hit in the Russian invasion attempt.

Re. Azov

Azov was a independent militia group set up to fight pro Russian seperatists in Donbas. I first heard of them about 18 months ago - Sky News did a series of reports on the Donbas war and Azov were front and centre. They were, and still are, a far right group with neo Nazi idealogy. Their logo/symbol is based on the Nazi swastika. Putin used their evil actions as yet another excuse (as if he needed one !) to invade Ukraine. I was shocked at some of the atrocities they committed, they were engaged in a form of ethnic cleansing. They murdered complete familes that they suspected were sympathetic to the pro Russians, they looted, robbed and raped at will. They even dismissed their own deputy comannder after he spoke out about the looting & debauchery in the battalion. Of course this inconvenient truth does not suit the current narrative. After what happened at the steel works in Marioupl they are a spent force at the moment but no doubt they'll regroup again. None of them or their commanders will ever be charged with war crimes in the Hague or elsewhere.....after all they were/are on the ''right side'' Such are the vageries of war.

21-06-2022 04:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119231272#Comment_119231272

I think this is probably the reality, holidaying around europe on Irish benefits

Beasty · 21-06-2022 04:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230394#Comment_119230394

You do realise Ireland's population density is actually lower than Ukraine's?

Trying to rehouse everyone displaced would be like (actually a bit worse) trying to move the whole of the population of NI into the Republic without building any more accommodation

Boggles · 21-06-2022 05:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119231272#Comment_119231272

2 young women volunteered all that information to you. Wow.

At least you put a bit of effort into your anecdote I suppose.

So basically, Ukraine is fine and Putin is only denazifying the place.

Cool story. 👎️

JP Liz V1 · 21-06-2022 05:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230381#Comment_119230381

Returned to Ireland from Poland?

Dempo1 · 21-06-2022 05:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119232024#Comment_119232024

No return to Ukraine from Ireland 🤔😉

Basically curious given 60 % of Ukrainian refugees that fled to Poland have now returned home.

21-06-2022 06:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119232052#Comment_119232052

as hinted earlier the ones who travelled futher away, most likely wont be going back, except for holidays, and because most of Ukraine is safe, perhaps alot are going back now to see their family - alot of the old people stayed behind and alot of men wernt allowed to leave

21-06-2022 07:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119232318#Comment_119232318

I didn't hint. I pointed out that the research on refugees shows that those who leave, and stay nearby, tend to return (not all do). Whereas those who travel further away, don't return as much. Oh, and those to establish any kind of roots in the host nation are far less likely to return. That's especially true when returning means coming back to an unstable country, both economically and politically.

As for those going back now... this conflict isn't over. Any fresh offensives by Russia could send another million Ukrainians fleeing across their borders, looking for refuge elsewhere. People are pushing this wonderful thing that many Ukrainians are returning to Ukraine. Whooptie do. It means nothing. It's still early days. When this conflict is finished, and Russian forces have withdrawn, then, I'll be impressed by Ukrainians returning home. But until that happens, those returning refugees could easily turn around, and come looking to settle in Ireland or the rest of Europe. That's the reality.

riddles · 22-06-2022 06:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230919#Comment_119230919

And the heart is where the 250€ a week for three years is.

_Kaiser_ · 22-06-2022 07:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230494#Comment_119230494

Listening to Leo Varadkar talking on NT now about how much they've done already for the cost of living crisis (1bn package of measures as he's keen to remind us) but refusing to give details on the budget measures is bad enough given how those costs are surging week on week, but then remembering that 3bn has already been earmarked to support people who increasingly have no real humanitarian reason to be here given the (proportionally) small scale conflict at home, and the reports of some of them happily engaging in welfare tourism is becoming an increasingly bitter pill to swallow.

Everyone getting up early to go to work this morning (to paraphrase one of Leo's favourites) is being taken for a ride.

Dempo1 · 22-06-2022 07:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233394#Comment_119233394

And regretting they had breakfast listing to Leo's patronising and sanctimonious Codswallop 😏

Boggles · 22-06-2022 07:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233394#Comment_119233394

the reports of some of them happily engaging in welfare tourism is becoming an increasingly bitter pill to swallow

Could you link to these reports please?

22-06-2022 07:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233394#Comment_119233394

Given that approximately 3,000 are already in employment, a lot of your post is nonsense. Yes, most are living rent free, in conditions that would not be acceptable to some of our most vocal “homeless”. Many sleeping 3 and 4 to a bedroom, sharing bathroom and kitchen facilities with numerous other families.

I find that figure inspiring. They leave everything they own behind, yet are in gainful employment within weeks of their arrival in a country where the language and culture is totally different to their own. Most will lose their medical cards once reviews begin.

Boggles · 22-06-2022 07:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233458#Comment_119233458

Up until the start of this month, over 3 weeks ago around 3,500 were in employment.

Around 3,500 Ukrainians have found jobs in Ireland since seeking refuge here but the lack of accommodation for them remains “very challenging”,

thousands more Ukrainians were keen to take up employment here and 7,700 had so far engaged with various job-seeker initiatives

Over 10,000 employed or actively looking for employment, given their circumstances you are very much right to be inspired any normal decent person couldn't help but be.

Dempo1 · 22-06-2022 08:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233458#Comment_119233458

None of the post was nonsense, actually very objective and to @_Kaiser_ credit he's offered excellent analysis of the situation, I don't always agree but that's called debate .

You constantly harp on about these 3,000 finding employment, it's wonderful but fail to grasp its a tiny proportion and the Jobs they've filled are primarily seasonal, low paid and potentially part time roles , indeed I'd wager had the hospitality sector not made such a bags of how they treated staff prior to this crisis, most of these 3k roles wouldn't exist. I commend those who've gained employment .

You mention reviews re medical cards , yes a possibility of loosing them but you know full well, highly unlikely given the income these refugees are on and the likely hood by the time reviews are done, most of the jobs obtained may have ended. You also know full well others would loose SW supports in a heart beat if they found employment, that's not happening with Ukranian refugees, I'm not saying that's a bad thing but again point out the hypocrisy and inequality on display.

Irelandsnumberone · 22-06-2022 08:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233467#Comment_119233467

I agree and fair play to them. When they do start paying rent, hotel rooms etc?

Boggles · 22-06-2022 08:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233540#Comment_119233540

Do we charge people in emergency accommodation rent in this country now?

When did that happen?

22-06-2022 08:34AM

I work on a farm, some physical work, some admin. We have 2 Ukranian women who work 2 days a week. They get paid in cash and keep their full social welfare entitlement. Meals are free. Most of the Ukranians I am hearing about through my job are in the same kind of temporary, cash in hand, part time jobs. Just saying.

Boggles · 22-06-2022 08:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233601#Comment_119233601

You are entitled to work part time and keep social welfare AFAIK. Nothing sinister about it.

The numbers in employment are figures provided by revenue.

Dempo1 · 22-06-2022 08:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233582#Comment_119233582

Always back and forth Boggles , those in Emergency accommodation as you well know don't get a meal plan , automatic entitlements, Transportation put on and can and do be given hours notice to move on, are also in many situations, restricted from premises during certain hours of the day and more times than often given accommodation vouchers and sent away to find a premises that might accept them and the voucher.

Please stop trying to compare apples and oranges.

22-06-2022 08:45AM

....so the family of 8 that my friend in Kerry had living with him were successfully moved to a large house in Killarney. They get €600 per week SWA and €1000 a month Child Benefit and the house is free. Now they have contacted my friend to ask when AND if they get their Visas processed to the UK (which was their original intention but Priti Patel had other ideas) can they move over there to his house as it looks so much nicer than the house in Killarney. It is (they've seen the photos as I have) ! Its a 3 storey Victorian house in Surrey which has been modernised and its in a stunning location.

I told him to tell them that the benefits in the UK are not half as generous as the benefits here. Nicer house but less money. Decisions, decisions, what a conundrum to be in!

22-06-2022 08:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119233617#Comment_119233617

You are not entitled to keep your FULL social welfare if you work 2 days a week. That was my point. These workers are paid cash in hand and are on full social welfare. I was just trying to make the point to Maryanne4 that a lot of the employment the Ukrainians are getting is not full time and not tax paying. Another girl in my area has got work 2 days a week in a hairdressers, she is also paid in cash. So while Ukrainians might be working, many are still on full social welfare payments which is still costing a lot of money to the tax payer.