F1 2022 thread - see post 1 for rules

flazio · 18-06-2022 08:43AM

You know how Horner aquired a load of engine people from Mercedes-Benz. So it's those same people who are living it up with Red Bull now. The same people are dominating as before, just under a different name.

McFly85 · 18-06-2022 09:45AM

Not a huge fan of the FIA stepping in and forcing setup alterations, but I suppose it’s the best middle ground between punishing all cars and not doing anything at all.

You’d imagine there’ll be some kinks to work through, as Horner said measurements on Sat could be useless if conditions change on Sunday etc but you’d think they’d have to implement it to see how it goes.

McFly85 · 18-06-2022 09:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218644#Comment_119218644

To be fair that’s generally how team sport fandom works, a guy you hate signs for your team and you don’t hate him anymore and vice versa. It’s not something that makes a whole lot of sense but it is what it is!

ctrl-alt-delete · 18-06-2022 09:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218205#Comment_119218205

Nice to have a tribute,

I'd have turned the Petronas on the rear wing to Paul Sims. It would have worked nice and no loss to Petronas - similar to the halycon days of Bitten & Hisses, Buzzin Hornets etc.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-06-2022 09:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218802#Comment_119218802

Why wouldn't it be a loss to Petronas?

guyfo · 18-06-2022 10:01AM

Well the FIA sure swept that one under the rug.... no mention of teams being allowed to modify their cars in the statement... what a load of absolute tripe.

"For the Montreal weekend, teams could run an additional second floor stay in front of the current one that is allowed to help bolster stiffness further forward.

Furthermore, teams would be allowed some additional thickness on the top floor’s surface that may not comply with curvature or volume rules."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-capitalises-on-new-fia-freedoms-with-latest-updates/10323788/

quokula · 18-06-2022 10:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218823#Comment_119218823

Yeah amazing that they swept that under the rug in the initial announcements. Mercedes were the only team to take advantage of this new geometry too in practice - I’m sure other teams will eventually follow suit but the fact that the new modifications directly address the flaws with the Mercedes floor so specifically, and the fact the team had parts ready to go to conform to the new regulations as soon as they were announced suggests that this was a rule change put in place entirely for the benefit of one single team.

ctrl-alt-delete · 18-06-2022 11:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218813#Comment_119218813

It would be for one weekend, starts and ends with the same letters. It is already ingrained as it is.

guyfo · 18-06-2022 11:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218910#Comment_119218910

And still not 1 media outlet has put it on their social media and most, including the official F1 website, haven't even acknowledged it. Only place I can see it reported is on Motorsport.com and Autosport.com.

FIA to Mercedes rescue, what a joke.

JRant · 18-06-2022 12:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218823#Comment_119218823

That makes a lot more sense than just making teams run their cars higher. There seems to be a consensus from those in the know that raise the height alone won't solve the issue so additional measures are required. Teams are still going to have to run their cars slightly higher and sacrifice a bit of performance but these other measures are sensible from a safety point of view as well.

There was no way the initial changes were going to come in without some concessions.

guyfo · 18-06-2022 12:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219276#Comment_119219276

Teams were already given concessions before the first race by being allowed to put the floor stays on their cars now they get more and can reinforce the floors too.

If the cars were dangerous then make them run higher then DSQ as they said they were going to do. This does nothing but give the likes of Merc a get out of jail free card.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-06-2022 12:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219141#Comment_119219141

Yeah fair enough. If I were Petronas and paid for the rear wing sponsorship slot, and Mercedes wanted to muck about with it for a weekend, I'd tell them to do one. At the least, I'd want my money back for the sponsorship for the weekend.

Sponsors aren't nice guys who love racing and like to step aside and pay to honour people from other businesses.

ctrl-alt-delete · 18-06-2022 01:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219309#Comment_119219309

Ah yeah I didn't mean Merc just to do it off the bat, they can't obviously but they might have bought into the idea.

Would draw attention to it and probably more than normal - anyways I just thought it would fit nice.

Roll on qualifying !

18-06-2022 02:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218549#Comment_119218549

It's all about Merc because their's is the worst and they've been hamming it up knowing it'll be broadcast everywhere.

I can see it being popular giving the biggest and richest teams more budget cap space and testing time.

JRant · 18-06-2022 04:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119219802#Comment_119219802

I mean, it's either a safety issue or it's not. Raising the car height alone doesn't fully stop the issue so teams are allowed try other measures. I think that's a fair trade off.

They'll still be running their cars higher than optimal for flat out performance but are allowed claw some marginal gains back by trying other measures.

I doubt any of the changes to the Merc this week are anything other than a stab in the dark in the hope they land on something. Regardless of what people think there's no way this change is solely for the their benefit.

18-06-2022 05:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220167#Comment_119220167

It's a safety issue in that some teams are clearly and in front of a worldwide audience of millions are shouting "We're not taking proper care of our drivers".

"Allowed try other measures". Well they were never not allowed to up the ride-height as far as I know so they should be focussing on themselves rather than broadcasting a driver telling his team his back has gone numb because they've set up their car in a particular way.

What I don't like is that the door is now open and Mercedes (and if it "randomly" affects teams at different tracks they'll probably be at it as well) are going to (because they're cynical and all about getting the most for themselves, as they're supposed to be) still complain. Mercedes are looking for a free out after making a pretty massive balls up. If their understanding of their car is as limited as they've been letting on (FP3 there, ffs you'd think it was the first time Hamilton was in the car) then I wonder who it is who's signing off on it being safe to drive because they're flailing in the wind right now and have no desire to fix the issue themselves within the rules which everyone has know about for years.

Hijpo · 18-06-2022 05:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220167#Comment_119220167

I thought the regs were to help "reduce" the effects not resolve them. My understanding of mercs issue is that the floor flexes too much, the regs allow them to stiffen the floor. Stiffening the floor would resolve the issue, which would be helping merc considerably more than others. If other teams already have a stiff enough floor then what's it going to do for them.

duploelabs · 18-06-2022 05:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220423#Comment_119220423

On top of that, since red bull effectively don't need those extra stays then they can add then, and further reduce the weight of the underfloor, everyone wins

Hijpo · 18-06-2022 06:02PM

IF the development of a new floor comes in under the cost gap

mickdw · 18-06-2022 08:05PM

Alpine and anyone else who made a floor sturdy enough to do its job should be launching legal action if they are just allowing random extra floor supports now.

Floor support bars required for 'safety' should come with a weight penalty at a minimum in the name of fairness.

guyfo · 18-06-2022 08:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220852#Comment_119220852

Looks like they agreed with you!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-to-remove-second-floor-stay-amid-f1-protest-threat/10324527/

El_Duderino 09 · 19-06-2022 05:41PM

F1 looking at moving the French GP to Nice. Links like it might just be talk to put pressure on Monaco. Anything that puts Monaco and Paul Ricard under pressure is a good thing. The last few street circuits have had a good hit rate for decent races. Monaco and Paul Ricard should go.

Autosport: F1 CEO Domenicali floats idea of French GP in Nice.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-ceo-domenicali-floats-idea-of-french-gp-in-nice/10323759/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=RSS-F1&utm_term=News&utm_content=uk

quokula · 19-06-2022 08:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220868#Comment_119220868

It’s really unclear. Early in the weekend they allowed Mercedes to use a different reinforced floor outside the original geometry defined in the regs, and also a second floor stay. The second floor stay then got removed, but did they still run with the new reinforced floor? I can’t see any reports one way or another, but it would certainly explain their new found pace.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-06-2022 09:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224534#Comment_119224534

I think it was a case of a rule banning it but s technical directive allowing it. Rules take precedent so other teams would have objected and merc would likely lose.

That's just the impression I got from reading or listening somewhere. Can't remember the source though.

Captain_Crash · 19-06-2022 10:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224563#Comment_119224563

Yeah that’s pretty much it, a nuance being a TD can supersede a regulation if it’s safety related, and while the TD in this case was safety related, the argument is that a directive wasn’t required to fix the issue as teams have always had the option to raise the ride hight if they wanted. So to avoid any arguments (irony I know) Merc removed the extra stays.

Hijpo · 19-06-2022 11:04PM

How much would it cost to develop a new reinforced floor in three days

mickdw · 20-06-2022 12:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119220868#Comment_119220868

Ya. If rules can be adjusted mid season to rescue one or two teams, the sport is fecked.

Frank Bullitt · 20-06-2022 05:38AM

There are stories of Toto and a few other team principles having a proper go at each other in a meeting during the Canadian weekend…and Netflix were there.

Cant wait to see that one.

duploelabs · 20-06-2022 07:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119225396#Comment_119225396

I'd rather not watch anything F1 with the taint of Netflix on it

quokula · 20-06-2022 03:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119225259#Comment_119225259

It gets more insidious the more you read about it. It turns out that Shaila-ann Rao, Toto Wolff's personal lawyer who was appointed to the FIA just one month ago, is the one directly responsible for putting in this new Technical Directive. The one that quite loudly publicly announced they were going to measure porpoising and force teams to raise ride height or penalise them (which they ended up never actually bothering to do), while it quietly also allowed the floor to be reinforced and an extra stay added which were illegal under original the regulations - details which they never really publicly announced and only got picked up by the media slightly later. Despite the fact that the new floor geometry was illegal according to the regulations and no team had any reason to think this would change coming to Canada, Mercedes just happened to have all of the components they needed with them to add this reinforcement, while no other team did.

It's not surprising there's been so many reports of heated exchanges between Toto Wolff and the rest of the team principals, the whiff of corruption is pretty extreme with this one. With the threat of legal action Mercedes ultimately removed the extra floor stay, but I won't be surprised if this rumbles on to the upcoming races.

F1 2022 thread - see post 1 for rules

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