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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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    #5882
    shillyshilly
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭shillyshilly



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119128749#Comment_119128749

    Morning all... I see our little chat about reading the actual links you post instead of relying on the clickbait title still hasn't sunk in....

    I take it you hit the paywall and gave up ....

    That's cool, here are some highlights from it:

    Now, scientists at University College London (UCL) have found a rise in cases of GBS in the first two to four weeks after the AstraZeneca vaccine, but not in other vaccines, such as Pfizer or Moderna.

    Like many vaccines, the Oxford jab uses a weakened chimp adenovirus to deliver the coronavirus spike protein into the body, and scientists have speculated that a reaction to adenovirus may be responsible for the rise in cases.

    Adenovirus usually causes the common cold, but scientists are starting to think it may also mimic human cells in a similar way to Campylobacter, confusing the immune system into attacking the body.

    Lead author Prof Michael Lunn (UCL Queen Square Institute of Neurology) said: “At the moment we don’t know why a vaccine may cause these very small rises in GBS.

    “It may be that a non-specific immune activation in susceptible individuals occurs, but if that were the case similar risks might apply to all vaccine types.

    “It is therefore logical to suggest that the simian adenovirus vector, often used to develop vaccines, including AstraZeneca’s, may account for the increased risk.

    Unusual spike in GBS reports

    Adenovirus-based vaccines are used against a wide variety of pathogens, tuberculosis, HIV and malaria.

    GBS affects about 1,500 people in the UK each year and 30 to 40 per cent of cases have no known causes, leading researchers to suspect that adenovirus could be a factor.

    During the 1976 swine flu vaccination campaign in the USA, there was a small increase in GBS associated with the flu jab at that time, leading scientists to question whether the Covid jabs could have a similar effect.

    To find out, UCL researchers carried out a population-based study of NHS data in England to track GBS case rates against vaccination rollout.

    Between January to October 2021, 996 GBS cases were recorded in the UK National Immunoglobulin Database, but there was an unusual spike in GBS reports occurring between March and April 2021.

    For these two months there were about 140 cases per month compared to historical rates of about 100 per month - a 40 per cent increase.

    Analysis showed 198 GBS cases (20 per cent) occurred within six weeks of the first-dose Covid-19 vaccination in England.

    Overall, following a first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine there were 5.8 excess GBS cases per million doses of vaccine, equating to an absolute total excess between January-July 2021 of between 98-140 cases.

    The rate is still significantly lower than the one in 1,000 rate of GBS associated with Campylobacter.

    All the usual stuff, no certain evidence, just some indicators.... what I don't like is how this is being reported as "new" but I'll come back to that at the end...

    What's food for thought though is that it has stated of an already known possible link to Adenovirus (common cold virus) and the time period studied was when lockdown restrictions were lifted in the UK, and the vaccine of preference during the timeframe of the study was AZ.....and for anyone who lives here (like me) there was a period of 3 or 4 months where everyone went though 2 or 3 doses that weren't COVID, due to people being allowed to mix again.... so could well be a case of correlation and not causation

    some final words in the article from an AZ rep (I know they're the enemy, but they do make some good points)

    An AstraZeneca spokesman said: “Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) has been reported very rarely following vaccination with Vaxzevria. Vaccination of any kind is a known risk factor for GBS and it is noted in the manuscript that the small number of GBS cases appears similar to increases previously seen in other mass vaccination campaigns. 

    “It should also be noted that in the UK, Vaxzevria had been administered to more people than any other vaccine during the time frame studied in the manuscript.

    “The study observes that the small numbers of cases should be compared to how many infections, hospitalisations and deaths our vaccine has prevented due to Covid-19. Current estimates show that globally the vaccine has helped prevent 50 million Covid-19 cases, five million hospitalisations, and to have saved more than one million lives.

    “The EMA and other international bodies including the WHO, have all stated that the benefits of vaccination continue to outweigh any potential risks.”

    now, back to my issue with the report... I feel this is being pitched as a "new" discovery by UCL, when this had been wildly reported in journals as early as Oct 2021.

    UK Study Links COVID Vaccines to Neurological Disorders (webmd.com)

    Neurological complications after first dose of COVID-19 vaccines and SARS-CoV-2 infection | Nature Medicine

    What you need to know about COVID-19 vaccines and rare neurological complications | Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance

    Study finds no increased risk of rare neurological events after covid vaccination | BMJ


    TLDR version....

    Studies show 38 extra cases in 10 million of GBS

    COVID on it's own also causes GBS

    Smaller control studies show GBS higher in unvaccinated groups

    Larger studies of vaccinated groups correlate GBS with Adenovirus based vaccines

    No reports take into account environmental factors (lifting of restrictions, other known causal factors not being taken into account)

    Lastly, the BMJ journal from Oct 21 stated

    "We found no safety signal for any of the studied immune mediated neurological events after vaccination against covid-19. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 was, however, associated with an increased risk of Bell’s palsy, encephalomyelitis, and Guillain-Barré syndrome."



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    #5883
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭jackboy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129388#Comment_119129388

    Maybe try dealing with posters on an individual basis rather than putting them in buckets and using a generic response for all. I don’t believe Omicron is a big enough threat to children to justify giving them all a vaccine developed for a different variant. That’s my opinion, if you have a different opinion fair enough.



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    #5884
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129427#Comment_119129427

    But you just agreed that the omicron variant is still dangerous to people outside of the at risk groups.

    So why not lessen the danger even more by using the vaccines?

    You're welcome to your opinion, but that doesn't mean your opinion is correct, well supported or rational.


    My point by bringing up buzzer is that you anti-vaxxers don't at all challenge false claims made by your fellows. You demonstrate this nicely.


    So be honest, why are you ignoring his claims? Why do you not want to comment on them?



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    #5885
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129388#Comment_119129388

    Why would you get severe symptoms if you're out of the risk group ?

    That's got me stumped ol'e bhouy...



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    #5886
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭jackboy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129449#Comment_119129449

    I have an open mind. I haven’t seen data on what percentage of children get severe illness from Omicron and how much that is reduced by the current vaccines. So, yes for now I’m just going from what I see, which is no children I have heard of getting severe illness from Omicron. I have heard of several old people getting really bad doses so yes I would strongly encourage them to keep taking the vaccines.



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    #5887
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129482#Comment_119129482

    Yeah the vaccines are good for vulnerable and old people. But for healthy people I'm sure they'd pull through easily enough. Why wouldn't they they're healthy.

    King mob seems to think if you're out of the risk group you'd get severe symptoms.

    Obviously if you get severe symptoms you're in the risk group, unbeknownst to yourself it would be obvious you're unable to fight it off as well as someone out side of the risk group.

    So into the risk group you go if you've severe symptoms.

    Cart before the horse kind of scenario. But King mob isn't infallible, as he's demonstrated a few times.



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    #5888
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129482#Comment_119129482

    Why haven't you looked into the percentages? You declared that you didn't think it was a danger. How could you possibly know this if you haven't looked into it? That's insane.


    And still no comment on Buzzers claims. Thanks for proving my point.



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    #5889
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129480#Comment_119129480

    You are at a lower changes of getting severe symptoms than those in a high risk group.

    You are now declaring that people outside of the risk groups do not get sereve symptoms and do not die from covid.

    Utter nonsense and complete hypocrisy.



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    #5890
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129515#Comment_119129515

    Any comment on Buzz buzz's claims yourself?

    Agree with them I take it?



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    #5891
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129549#Comment_119129549

    Im not claiming that. I'm saying that it's quite obvious that people who get really sick from COVID-19 must be in the risk group.

    Obviously they're vulnerable if they get really sick.

    Therefore into the risk group they go. Obviously their immune system isn't as good as the people who were asymptomatic.

    There's 90 year olds who were asymptomatic during the first wave, tested positive but no symptoms.



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    #5892
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭jackboy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129543#Comment_119129543

    I don’t know where to find the percentages. They haven’t been communicated to the public. Bit of a stretch saying it’s insane not to research this when Covid has already spread through the local school with no severe effects. I don’t think all children should take the flu vaccine either even though I know children are not 100% safe from that virus.



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    #5893
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129559#Comment_119129559

    Lol no man. That's not how it works. Complete nonsense from yourself as always.



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    #5894
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129562#Comment_119129562

    Yes, it is insane to declare with no medical training or knowledge, using a very tiny sample size (and gonna guess no attempts to actually verify or check any of those.) that there's no risk from covid without doing any research.

    The information is out there and people who actually do research are able to find it. That's why doctors and medical organisations disagree with you.

    Why do you think your opinion based on no research is better than theirs?



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    #5895
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭jackboy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129582#Comment_119129582

    😂It’s a nice day, I’m going for a walk.



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    #5896
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129552#Comment_119129552

    I don't know where he's getting his research from, a few hippies I knew were totally against vaccines. They were saying what's similar to buzzers research.

    I'm not going to personality insult the guy or call him names like you do. Because that would just be pathetic.

    The reason I act out on you and your kin is because ye have thrown in personal digs towards us, putting people into one bracket, that insepit streak is what some of ye thrive on.



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    #5897
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129606#Comment_119129606

    Enjoy your walk, I'm going to walk around the headland soon, it's magnificent back west here. I'm watching the gulls from my house diving for sprat. Bit early for mackerel shoals, it could be lance ammodytidae they're shoaling around now.



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    #5898
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129606#Comment_119129606

    Cool. You understand that dodging point don't make them go away though, right?



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    #5899
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129617#Comment_119129617

    Cool. So you agree with him then.

    In that case, please stop whinging when we point out that you guys believe the same shite.



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    #5900
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,994 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129207#Comment_119129207

    Why are you replying for this other user? How did you learn about that video?



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    #5901
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129659#Comment_119129659

    You're on a right rant this morning. Did you go hard on the aul hooch last night. You're ability of cognition this morning is quite poor.

    Read the paragraph again I never said I agree with him.

    I said I knew hippies who were on about the same thing.

    There's a difference between familiarization of hearing something before and agreeing with it.

    Cool so you agree with him then...lol you're running out of steam dude.

    Anyhow I'm heading for a walk around the headland.

    Hope you tell me to enjoy my walk ;)



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    #5902
    shillyshilly
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭shillyshilly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129281#Comment_119129281

    by that logic, Pfizer would be in the same boat, where they're not.... all vaccine makers have seen a slump in demand

    Moderna's issue is they produced in the anticipation of having similar demands equivalent to last years...

    Pfizer were the first mRNA to the market, and people wanted to keep continuity of vaccines which reduced demand for it in the west.... they got over taken as vaccine of choice for many other countries.... additional was also produced for Africa, but nobody is fronting the money for it, so they have excess stock, which is their own doing.



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    #5903
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129685#Comment_119129685

    Ok. So then you disagree with him.



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    #5904
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129689#Comment_119129689

    Why do you want me to disagree with him ?



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    #5905
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129716#Comment_119129716

    Because the fact you and your fellow antivaxxers won't challenge his false claims to the point you won't even say that you disagree with him proves my point.

    You dodged the question again, which is a perfect illustration.



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    #5906
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129723#Comment_119129723

    Looks like you could do with a colouring book or join the dots to get you started at illustration. You've the comprehension of a goldfish and the creativity of a a broken egg.

    Have a wonderful afternoon, you'll find colouring books and crayons will stimulate your day. Enjoy 😉



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    #5907
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129672#Comment_119129672

    You asked for a source. I provided one. What is the issue?



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    #5908
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129760#Comment_119129760

    Lol. And dodged again.

    Point proven.



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    #5909
    bad2thebone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129771#Comment_119129771

    Yeah the artful dodger 😂👍



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    #5910
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129769#Comment_119129769

    Bit weird for you to jump in and provide a source for someone else when we're still waiting for you to provide some for the things you claimed.

    Any luck finding the quote that shows that the vaccines are effecting long term immunity?

    Any luck finding any source or any data that shows that the vaccines are causing more infections?


    Or have you just given up on those claims?



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    #5911
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,994 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129769#Comment_119129769
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119129207#Comment_119129207
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126199#Comment_119126199
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126209#Comment_119126209

    What I want to know is why @hometruths is answering for @323 seemingly within a half day of my questioning @323 's post. After all, it takes some time to sit through a Davos presentation (a deadly dull one, personally lasted about 5 minutes into it). My guess is @323 and @hometruths are the same person. Why else answer for them? So, @hometruths, how did you learn of this presentation and did you know of it before @323 posted about it?



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