Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

Boggles · 22-05-2022 09:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096379#Comment_119096379

She doesn't post here. You do so if you could answer the question I'd appreciate it.

Which country has put a cap in place?

22-05-2022 10:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096415#Comment_119096415

If needs must they could- but it’s an academic question- this was never about “for a few weeks” - we’ve said in this thread since the start that the commitment would have to be 1 year to 18 months minimum - whereby the government played down this timeline and duration

Boggles · 22-05-2022 10:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096448#Comment_119096448

Oh so no one said that. Okay.

I don't think any government has played down the seriousness of what is happening apart from the ones allied in some way with the Russians.

Including our own, unless I missed it, have you citation for your claim?

There is a reason the directive was activated for the first time, primarily because of the graveness of the situation.

22-05-2022 10:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096421#Comment_119096421

Is that a tacit acknowledgement that uncapped == limitless Boggles?

Why would the response other countries dictate that of this country? Do you think that resources, economic strength, housing situation, and population size play any roles? Are those parameters limitless too Boggles?

Boggles · 22-05-2022 10:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096471#Comment_119096471

There is no such thing as limitless Ukrainian refugees, again that's not my opinion.

But No country has placed a cap, that's all you had to say.

Also it is an EU directive.

22-05-2022 10:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096496#Comment_119096496

Boggles, you’re in a party of one if you have difficulty with the semantics of uncapped and limitless.

Does every country unilaterally implement every EU directive Boggles?

Boggles · 22-05-2022 10:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096505#Comment_119096505

Facts are semantics. They do appear to be in here. 😕

Why would every country implement every EU directive, that is quite a bizarre question, with an obvious answer.

Have you a point with this folly? Maybe just get to it.

22-05-2022 10:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096521#Comment_119096521

Oh I’m sorry Boggles, do you have a more pressing engagement?

The facts are Boggles that the Irish government issued an uncapped / limitless welcome. The consequences of that decision are now slowly starting to materialize. The realization is dawning that resources in this country are finite; this has engendered significant concern and the natives are getting shifty.

Indeed, it is quite a folly, isn’t it Boggles?

Boggles · 22-05-2022 10:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096551#Comment_119096551

No they didn't.

The EU trigged for the first time the Temporary Protection Directive, which Ireland and 25 other EU countries are legally bound to. Denmark in lieu of it passed a a separate law.

No country inside or outside the EU have placed a cap, your attempt to paint Ireland as some sort of outlier in this regard is just plain silly.

All resources in all countries are finite, again not just Ireland.

The natives are fine, the online permanent contrarians will always be shifty.

And yes I do have a pressing engagement, so have a good one. 👍️

Field east · 22-05-2022 10:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096385#Comment_119096385

We are in an UNPRECIDENTED emergency due to a brutal war where millions are on the move. Countries around Ukraine have taken in 10+ times more refugees than Ireland. Ireland should park our accommodation/ housing standards and use anything that will give these refugees a bed to lie on and access to food in a place where they can find peace Eg guaranteed no bombs / missiles/ Russian soldiers around. If , for example, the. Old direct provision facilities provide this well then we should use them

22-05-2022 10:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096574#Comment_119096574

Of course you do Boggles. I’m sure you’re very busy.

Do you think that social unrest might equate to getting shifty? Do you think that the government might be realizing the consequences of their ‘come hither’ statement? Do you think the report in the Independent was a fabrication?

No need to answer right away. I wouldn’t want to divert you from your important business Boggles..

_Kaiser_ · 22-05-2022 10:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096575#Comment_119096575

That's all nice in theory but unfortunately the REALITY suggests different...

We are ALREADY in the midst of an unprecedented emergency in housing, healthcare and essential service provision generally
The costs of living - particularly fuel but now also feeling the effects in food etc - are surging week on week, even before Putin's invasion
There is an entirely understandable (and self-inflicted from a Government perspective) sense of resentment growing among the population towards not the refugees themselves, but this sudden rush of effort to find housing, school places, medical cards and everything else for these people ASAP when at the same time, the existing population have heard excuses after excuse why this couldn't be done previously. Simple logic and cause and effect will show that already oversubscribed services will suffer further if you add more dependents on them and it'll be those already on the lists who will be expected to wait longer

Your post is exactly why "good intentions" just aren't enough in the real world! My take from the article I referenced is that it's setting the stage for a gradual row back on the "open door" policy that the trend chasers in particularly FG (yes Helen and Leo, looking at you!) have been advocating and landed us (and the refugees already here) in this mess.

Boggles · 22-05-2022 11:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096600#Comment_119096600

Social unrest?

The same dozen lads on here moaning about everything? 🤣

We will be grand, Putin wants civil unrest, that's why he has weaponised refugees now and in the past, best not to fall for it and best not do his bots work for him. It's the main reason the directive was triggered for the first time.

Out the gap. 👍️

22-05-2022 11:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096633#Comment_119096633

It must be fascinating to spend time in your head Boggles.

Tell me, do you think one of Putin’s bots authored the report in the Independent? Did one of his personal automated serfs suggest that we have over-committed and the natives are concerned? Do you think your perception trumps reporting in a national newspaper?

We’ve already established that you don’t have a direct line to Minister McEntee, haven’t we? You’ll have to forgive me if I deem that article more credible than the utterances from Boggles on the internet.

zell12 · 22-05-2022 11:35AM

Daily Mail screams:

Beasty · 22-05-2022 01:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096505#Comment_119096505

It's called a Directive for a reason. Member States are required to implement them unless they have negotiated an opt-out.

22-05-2022 01:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096601#Comment_119096601

A lot of the emergency housing provided for the Ukrainians would never be approved for social housing. 3, 4 and more people in rooms meant for a max of 2. Sharing bathroom and kitchen facilities. Communal living rooms, etc.

Medical cards are only temporary and will be reviewed properly in 6 to 12 months. The refugees who take up jobs automatically lose their welfare entitlement.

It was easier to provide medical cards and welfare payments immediately as staff were not available to do the usual checks. These are unprecedented times and things will level off before long.

Strumms · 22-05-2022 01:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097137#Comment_119097137

I’d imagine things will not level off before long.

Russians haven’t gone to this trouble to make a few headlines and just scare people…. This is full on fûcked up and will be years in getting deescalated… probably not until Putin is six feet under…

_Kaiser_ · 22-05-2022 01:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097137#Comment_119097137

You have a lot more faith in an already badly strained, inefficient and wasteful, and broken (in places) set of supports and systems than I do!

As we've seen over and over again in even my own lifetime, "temporary" solutions have a way of rapidly becoming permanent in this country - USC being one of the more recent and still controversial measures as an example.

Ukraine was not exactly a paragon of virtue and compliance beforehand either (others have previously posted examples of corruption and stats) so you can be sure that there will be those who will enthusiastically take advantage of our lax controls on the supports once they realise the state of the problems for themselves - after all, many will have nothing else we're told, and they have no loyalty to Ireland so why not!

And let's not forget this is just the first wave! When the conflict finally ends, or as soldiers are wounded, they will likely want to be reunited with families already here. Then we'll have another influx of men with recent military training and PTSD etc - and again, we're not exactly known for our mental health supports are we? Or our ability to deal with violent crime and gangland issues etc etc.

All of these issues have been glossed over so far, but make no mistake, they are all ahead of us!

22-05-2022 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097024#Comment_119097024

I understand what a directive means and don’t require your clarification.

Yes, countries can opt / negotiate their way out of a directive. Particularly a country with insufficient resources to support an uncapped / limitless influx.

Strumms · 22-05-2022 01:58PM

Ireland will be borrowing another couple of trillion before it thinks about picking up the phone to Brussels to ‘opt’ out…absolutely massive challenges like never before seen in this country are ahead of us…

maybe that this is a beginning of people seeking we exit the EU…

fly_agaric · 22-05-2022 01:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097309#Comment_119097309

Hmm I do wonder how 1 of the richest (well on paper) EU members trying to opt out of the directive or trying to block it somehow, could have been justified? With difficulty I would say.

Kind of funny people blaming "virtue signalling", "feelz" and Irish govt. and/or the EU for Ireland having to shelter Ukrainian refugees.

How's about Putin & Russia's responsibility for going full Genghis Khan and f-cking everyting up just when the Covid pandemic and associated problems seemed to be receding?

Though from reading this forum over the past few years an improbably large number of posters actually thought Putin was the kind of anti-"woke" strongman hero leader with good ideas we need more of here.

They are a bit shy coming out with these pearls now.

Boggles · 22-05-2022 02:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097347#Comment_119097347

When did we borrow the first couple of trillion? 🤔

_Kaiser_ · 22-05-2022 02:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097225#Comment_119097225

This is very true. This is merely the latest move to restore something akin to the old Soviet empire. If it wasn't, they likely would have backed off by now or annexed what they have and negotiated.

But then, the likes of Russia and China's leadership don't think like us in the West and very much play the long game in these matters. These leaders don't think twice about sacrificing the peasantry at home (as they see them) to achieve their political goals. It's not likely to end with Putin himself either - the regime itself is the problem.

Unfortunately for us, those who understood that and how to deal with them are long since retired or dead. Instead we have the likes of New FG and the alphabet soup brigade who think some harsh words on Twitter will do the trick! The same issue exists elsewhere too.

The West won the Cold War and took their eye off the ball while consuming itself with identity politics and culture wars. Meanwhile everywhere else, business continues as usual and our weaknesses are being exploited ever since.

B2021M · 22-05-2022 02:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097347#Comment_119097347

Yes. There could be an irony here that the government being so keen to never challenge the EU may inadvertently reduce support for it long term when the issues that will arise from this become more obvious.

_Kaiser_ · 22-05-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097354#Comment_119097354

See my post above in this regard.

You ask what about Putin and Russia's responsibility here and you're right by the way! - but you're looking at it and applying Western ideas of responsibility and limits to a regime and society that thinks and operates very differently to us. Putin and his backers are trying to reestablish the USSR with all that entails. The aftermath and economic and social damage caused by Covid to Europe was merely an opportunity for him.

So yes, he is very much the anti-woke strong man by comparison with weak populist Western leaders, but he's also part of a system that we really don't want to see coming back either.

You don't negotiate with a rabid dog for example, you put it down or at least contain it. Twitter outrage, economic sanctions on a country that cares not for its citizens (as we can see by the casualty rates), and empty threats won't dissuade Putin or his backers.

But as I said, unfortunately we are in very short supply of politicians nowadays who understand that and how to deal with it.

22-05-2022 02:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096464#Comment_119096464

WTF Are you dribbling on about? Since day one the Irish government have down played the seriousness of 10s of thousands of Ukraine refugees pouring into Ireland on a monthly basis -don’t even think of justifying their position - they’ve completely underestimated the task at hand

fly_agaric · 22-05-2022 03:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119097459#Comment_119097459

It is fairly simple in my view and unrelated to what you've discuss in 2nd paragraph (our world view & philosophy vs the Russian regime's or Russian society).

They (Russia) invaded, it is all on them. Ukraine is right beside the EU. There are going to be refugees coming in particular from the regions occupied by Russia or on the front lines, so we can either (speaking of the EU as a collective) ignore this or try and help. I see this as part of assisting Ukraine's war effort to be honest given the number of internally displaced people inside Ukraine is considerably larger than the number of refugees in the EU. They have to be provided for too. As an EU member, some part of the burden of this (the refugees) is going to fall on Ireland whatever other problems we have of our own making.

As regards Putin there were definitely many posting here who found something about him and perhaps other strongman leaders very appealing pre war. Maybe you'd be one, with criticisms about our own leaders that they are "weak" and "populist" or don't take a long view. Our leaders will be the way they are, to an extent, IMO because we don't like in a highly corrupt top-down autocratic state like Russia. I don't think these leaders + people in power have done too bad of a job facing down Putin/Russia so far, for all you view them as weak, in particular Biden.

I kind of believe the biggest problem of the "West" since the Cold war is an all-consuming greed for ever more profit, more markets, more "stuff" by our business (& political) elites etc. in particular, and putting capitalism and the free market at the apex of all, almost equating it with democracy & freedom. You never mentioned that. Only the identity politics, and weak/populist leadership. It is often the right (who like their strong men) that is waging that big culture war with gusto too and riling things up because it wins them votes, particularly in the USA from what I understand of their politics!

Nermal · 22-05-2022 03:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096574#Comment_119096574

The directive was triggered by a unanimous vote. We didn't have to vote to trigger it. It wasn't imposed on us. Don't present the current situation as inevitable or outside of our control.

airy fairy · 22-05-2022 05:09PM

We can't even treat our own young people with the shambolic mental health services we have. How in god's name can we be happy by adding to it?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/closure-of-camhs-beds-due-to-staff-shortages-condemned-1308887.html

Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

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