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The employment crisis in the hospitality sector.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,863 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    In Limerick it was very few and most that didn't reopen were the type that had little or no crew. Maybe it's different other places but Cork and Dublin look in full flow from what I've seen.

    And there is a lack of staff in hospitality so anyone from a pub that didn't reopen should get a job easy. So I don't believe there is this massive workforce sitting at home who could be taking the hospitality jobs but just don't want to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,863 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Even when money isn't a problem it's unreal how stingy and mean people can be. Chippy in my town is closed since before Christmas for other reasons. One of the most popular in town, cash only. Serious, ludicrous money flowing through it. Few months later my mother bumped into a couple of the staff (who had been there 10-15 years) who were working in a shop. Owner of the chipper did nothing to help anyone out, no word on how long they'd be closed and was avoiding calls. Owed one of them 2 weeks wages and delivery driver about 300. I have to say I was honestly shocked, thought that particular place was a bit better but it would appear not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,955 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    If the government are clever they should encourage Ukrainians to enter the sector.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Lots of I'll informed people sticking the boot in here knocking employers.

    If an employer takes on an 18 y.o. with no experience and pays them €11 an hour it is some of the best job and life experience they will ever get and they will possibly learn a lot more than a lot of college courses that they waste 4 years attending for 15 hours a week.

    I see it all the time, they go into a job as mammys cotton wool wrapped precious and the employer is left to knock mammys molly cuddling out of them, and usually succeeds.

    I know plenty of people who are treated well, get their holidays and tips etc.

    If an employer acts the maggot then leave.

    I know one employer who advertises every single week and he just doesn't realise the problem is him as he is a bad employer. People work there to put a couple of months on the CV then get something better.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...some people truly couldnt give a fcuk about others!



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,863 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It's gonna upset some of the racists but the fact is we desperately need to get foreigners in for a lot of jobs right now. Problem is they have nowhere to live if they tried come over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,955 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    I thing the racists will be upset when they see who pays for their state pension in 2 decades time & possibly the colour of the skin of their carers.

    I agree with you. The 40K that left the sector were mostly foreign nationals that went home during Covid. Ukrainians are already here. This is a perfect sector for some of them to work. Front line for those with good english & housekeeping for those with poor English



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...we actually dont live in this perfect world, where people truly get to chose their place of employment, its not exactly that easy to walk from one job to another, as life normally has all sorts of obstacles in place, from dependents, to debt obligations etc etc. some employers are simply arseholes, have little or no respect for the people that help run their businesses, yes theres enormous pressures in running a business, but respect goes a long way! oh and treating young workers with a bit of respect is probably also a good idea

    ....and treat them with a bit of respect also, making sure their pay and conditions are improved.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    If a job isn't viable because there are no staff, it's not anymore viable than a business with no customers. We've also access to over 300m people within the EU.



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  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So as a non-racist you want to get foreigners in to do **** jobs? So you want them to come here and be treated worse than the Irish? That's a new one but you're obviously better than most people so kudos to you and your beautiful virtue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Like your post says, there's both good and bad employers.

    I've worked in a few small pubs years ago, all for good employers.

    Worked in a large hotel and things didn't go so smoothly.

    You'd get low pay for very hard work at unsociable times and often having to deal with drunk/ar5ehole/ignorant customers. There were often shennanigans with the rosters, changes at the last minute, no weekends off etc. Tips weren't always shared as agreed. No overtime, you'd be promised time off in lieu but the reality was that you would very rarely get to take it, and you'd certainly never get to take all that was owed to you. It would keep getting pushed out month after month due to the place being busy. One ex-colleague was actually owed three months holidays as time in lieu that he never got to take. The waiting staff got crucified with split shifts. No set finishing time, it all depended on what was on in the hotel and how busy it was, making it difficult for family life. Disrupted sleep patterns were common for many of the staff.

    So yeah, I can see why the industry is struggling to recruit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Service industries in general are poor. Dealing with the public is exhausting and difficult. Add to that shite money and worse hours, no real perks its easy to see why people are slow to return.

    I have family who have worked in hotels for years, promised the sun moon and stars at interview stage and it never ever turns out that way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Wages are a disgrace in the industry and the sh!te they have to deal with is horrific



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,863 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ive 15 years in hospitality and always done what I could for staff even when we worked for sht bosses. Could have made a lot more money if I towed the company line so shove your fake concern.

    I said needed for many jobs. For instance nursing, construction, dentistry as well as hospitality.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And joining a trade union?

    1. Do it 2. Don't tell anyone



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,863 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    So all the old people currently being cared for by the HSE are just left to rot because the job isn't viable ?

    The houses than need to get built the same ?

    Those 300m are you'll never guess foreigners.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,752 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Done my time in Hospitality. Awful sector ripe with abuse and terrible owners masquerading as businessmen IME. They deserve what they get.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,863 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Damn right. Respect, proper pay and good conditions should be so obvious it's sad people still need to fight for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,958 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Just in relation to foreign nationals working in the Irish Hospitality Industry, I've met and worked with 100"s of wonderful people from all the world. Admitidly when the work permit program was introduced it was horrific, there was no training, appalling accommodation and serious exploitation as work permits were linked to the employer /place of employment and the abuse that went on was appalling.

    Many did go on the get senior roles and when the conditions of Work permits relaxed they went on to find better jobs, many also opened their own successful businesses.

    Many also found better opportunities in other sectors and left the sector the first chance they got.

    Whilst some Ukrainians have started working in hotels, restaurants, bars etc it's going to be near impossible to encourage foreign nationals to return to Ireland and the hospitality sector, primarily because of its reputation and the total lack of accommodation and also remember the standard of living in countries like Poland is far better than it was in early 2000"s there's really very little to incentify foreign nationals to come to Ireland and work in Hospitality.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,780 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Well this lad did:


    He's been awarded compensation. A fairly modest amount of it IMHO. But I wonder if he'll actually see any of the cash. And if he'll find it hard to get jobs in future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,958 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Ah the ole switcharoo, we were talking about hospitality.

    Health etc should never be about profit and caters etc should get a lot more than they do. If everyone able-bodied got out and did their bit, there’d be more money in the pot to do that.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    G'way out of that. The hospitality sector does everything it can to f*ck over the staff it takes on, especially the younger ones.

    I worked in a very busy hotel when I was in college. Sh*te pay, given whatever slop was leftover from the kitchen for our break, management treating you like you're a piece of sh*t and not even supporting you when you tell a rude, drunk customer giving you personal abuse to f*ck off. They'd then call you the next day asking you to come in to help and if you genuinely couldn't, they'd make you feel like the worst person in the world and how dare you not put everything down at the click of our fingers. The miserable f*ckers wouldn't even give us a pint at the end of a night.

    The only thing good about it was the people I worked alongside. Genuinely a great crew and I look at that place now and see that headless chickens running around. Not their fault because they haven't been properly trained whatsoever.

    Most people don't know how shite they were treated until they are gone from it, because back then (height of the recession) there were very few jobs going and, since I was in college, I wasn't in a position to just leave.

    The pandemic gave the people working in hospitality (especially the younger staff) a chance to assess everything, and they decided to stick their fingers up at it because, barring a few exceptions, it is a horrible industry that thinks it can just bully kids around the place.

    Retail is the exact same.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I worked in catering when I was younger, taught me one thing, get as far away from it as possible, get a professional qualification. It's terrible, worked 14 hour shifts, bank holidays, weekends, long slog for crap money



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,090 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Everyone here complaining about the poor wages hospitality staff get.

    If you want them paid better be prepared to be the one to pay for it with higher prices.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fine by me.

    There's a whole other conversation to be had about where money goes in businesses in this country. Whether it's tax, rent or rates, there's a huge skew in terms of fixed costs being stupid high and demanding volume as the only viable selling model. Cutting VAT hasn't helped (shocker) so maybe a lot of businesses just aren't viable without having to act like arseholes.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    And it will be the uppity staff members faults won’t it? How dare they look for better pay and conditions.

    These types of posts stink. ‘Well you either tell the staff to go and sh*te or you pay higher prices from your own pocket’.

    All of these places make a **** ton of money for themselves. They could easily maintain their profits if they gave staff members a reason to keep coming back to work and doing it to the highest standard.

    One day society will stop ridiculing staff and look at the employers for being gaslighting sh*tbags.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,958 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I think that poster and others missing the entire point and they seems to be under some bizzare and ill informed notion the hospitality sector is entirely staffed by teenagers.

    Teens, college students are a small proportion of Employment in this sector and primarily work part time hours. Whilst it's entirely unacceptable they are treated badly, I can assure those in any doubt, the abuses, ill treatment, Shenanigans, Excessive hours, Non payment of wages & Bank Holidays, entitlements to name but a few issues are not limited to teenagers or college students but affect full time professional staff.

    Students are often thrown in the deep end, no training, no support and indeed I recall numerous reports dealing with appalling experiences people had when going to places that had just reopened after the pandemic, essentially owners thought they'd get away with operating with inexperienced staff, cheap labour so to speak and there was some astonishing stories of bad customer experience, most of whom did not blame the staff as they could see what was going on. Notwithstanding the shocking gouging that went on for those who staycationed.

    I am fully informed, having spent almost 30 years in the sector both home and abroad.

    It's an extremely difficult industry to work in and not helped by a large cohort of absolutely clueless business owners who wouldn't understand hospitality if it came up and slapped them in the face. Cowboys is what they are described as in the industry and sadly there are far too many.

    It's also important to add, there are excellent employers also and infact it's those very employers and business owners who've absolutely no problem problem retaining staff because they treat them well.

    It's very easy to differentiate from a Quality and consistant establishment. If it has long term, quality and happy staff it's not only a sign of a happy and productive work environment, those staff offer professional, Quality consistency and excellent service. Establishments with high staff turnover leads to dreadful standards and services, it creates a thouraghly unpleasant working environment which effects customers experiences, it's really not rocket science. I know for a fact some owners bizzarely seem to think it makes good business sense to turnover staff and its utterly perplexing.

    This Industry and indeed its representation bodies seriously need to look in the Mirror, the Pandemic was a kick in the Arse but as I've said before it's not the first nor will it be the last staffing crisis in this sector unless things change Drastically.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,958 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Some may be complaining about wage levels but it's far more than a wage issue.

    As for higher prices, I'm not at all sure they could be any higher, the Gouging that goes on in Ireland is absolutely shocking and those who bothered to staycation last year can testify to that.

    Notwithstanding many want to get away after the past two years, the cost of holidaying in Ireland is just extraordinary.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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