The employment crisis in the hospitality sector.

political analyst

According to the following article, which was published last Saturday (14 May), around 40,000 workers left the hospitality sector because of the pandemic.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/staff-shortages-in-hospitality-to-only-get-worse-over-summer-months-1304482.html

Obviously, many people who were out of work due to Covid restrictions got jobs in other workplaces. However, the numbers of people unemployed are bound to be still high because of the damage that has been suffered by the economy. So why are restaurants and other hospitality businesses still finding it difficult to recruit people? Even allowing for the 'benefits trap', many unemployed people would still seek work not just because of money but also because of self-respect.

Fattybojangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246660/the-employment-crisis-in-the-hospitality-sector

The answer is very simple the hours are long and the wages are sh!te and on top of that you have to allow people to treat you like sh!t.

Dyr

Because the people who left realised they could get better wages for working conditions and hours that arent absolute ****

The hopitality sector can go **** itself, basically.

Not to worry though, the Irish government will find people to hand out visas to in return for **** wages

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089457#Comment_119089457

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089460#Comment_119089460

But, even after those people who left found work elsewhere, there would still be many unemployed people who would still rather take jobs in hospitality anyway because of self-respect as well as money, wouldn't there?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089468#Comment_119089468

It's quite difficult to develop/maintain a sense of self respect in jobs where you are treated poorly, if not worse.

Anyway, not to worry, foreign students can be subject to all that sort of thing

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0516/1298377-students-visas/

hayse

The Green Party are to blame. They have the country ruined.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089495#Comment_119089495

But the threat of being taken to an employment tribunal acts as a deterrent to any hospitality employer that might consider cutting corners, doesn't it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089511#Comment_119089511

In a word, no.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089511#Comment_119089511

Corners are cut by every employer in hospitality and there is nothing employees can do. Minimum rates of pay, working hours mean nothing in the hospitality industry. Its pay them as little as possible, make them work past the time they are meant to be finished for free, never give them weekends off, dont allow employees take their full holidays because you are short staffed, dont process them on a payroll ( but dont tell them this) is all the norm.

Dempo1

This is not the first time the sector faced a crisis , Droves left it, during the celtic tiger. The industry actively encouraged a work permit program, Basically became dependent on cheap labour, Standards dropped , wages dropped and working conditions appalling.

The industry are pushing again for work permits but this time around there's no where to put these people up.

I had a 30 year career in the sector, there's few Training and even less bothered. I'd not return to it for any amount of money.

The Pandemic exposed the ugly side of the Industry, few employers availed of wage subsidies, instead laid off staff and told them to go and claim PUP, Basically **** off, those employees rightly said , feck that , we're out of here. Then when the sector reopened the very same employers blamed PUP on their woes when infact people had left the sector and many left Ireland and for good.

Even if they could be persuaded to come back, we're are they going to live and besides , Rents now way out of reach.

The Industry has its self to blame entirely.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089520#Comment_119089520

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089543#Comment_119089543

So why are employees not willing to take those employers to a tribunal? Why does employment law not have an impact on working conditions in hospitality?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089511#Comment_119089511

The standard is traditionally low. I can't see someone washing pots part time taking a case to any employment tribunal.

As above, the pandemic gave such workers a chance to catch a breath and reassess. There are adults who have little option but to work in hospitality. However we shouldn't be allowing young adults be treated poorly in such jobs either, because they likely will only be doing them for a few years.

In the states the chains are offering educational perks and better health. Tells me the money is sometimes there when their arm is twisted.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089716#Comment_119089716

The law just seems to show a blind eye to this industry. I do know a few people who sought legal advice and were told not to bother pursuing anything as there will be nothing gained. Its easier just to get out of the industry.

enricoh

Anyone on a minimum wage job nowadays is probably better off on welfare. That's without throwing in a nixer, child minding etc.

Saw an article today that only for nordie construction workers the sector would be screwed. The dole up north is a fraction of down here so you've no option but to work. Down here it's an optional extra!

The sector doesn't help itself with split shifts, etc.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246660/the-employment-crisis-in-the-hospitality-sector

Now would be the perfect time to start reducing JSA etc as there are plenty of jobs out there for people who want them. If you don't want to work, tough.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090012#Comment_119090012

Yeah the perfect time to start squeezing the vulnerable is in the middle of a massive inflation crises, with war in Europe, fuel supply crises, housing crises and a global economy steering towards recession.

Perfect timing if you're a victorian millowner, bit of a stupid idea if you've any consideration for other humans.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246660/the-employment-crisis-in-the-hospitality-sector

funnily enough, those that have decided to not return to this industry are actually showing a lot of self respect, deciding enough is enough in regards sh1te pay and conditions, and opting for a better life elsewhere, we should be applauding them for doing so. i wish them the best

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089752#Comment_119089752

It absolutely does , Hospitality employers use every trick in the book , split shifts , 12 hour days that can go to 16, Zero hours contracts, hoarding Tips, vague job descriptions the list is endless.

Horrible industry to work in and I'm not at all surprised it's struggling to get staff .

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089852#Comment_119089852

Its not about the option. You can't sign on because you like the rates. You've no option but to work unless you meet the criteria for being on welfare.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089468#Comment_119089468

Who are these "many unemployed people" what are the current figures.

Maybe I'm very lucky but I don't know anyone who was made unemployed by the pandemic.

StupidLikeAFox

I see hotels near me are now offering 4 day weeks, complimentary gym memberships and pensions to attract employees - it can only be a good thing if the industry realises that they can attract people as long as they offer the right conditions.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090248#Comment_119090248

Quite a few pubs did not reopen.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090294#Comment_119090294

true, but unemployment is back down to about 5%, so.....

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090299#Comment_119090299

Another poster said they didn't know anyone who lost a job due to Covid. Quite a few pubs did not reopen resulting in job losses. Some may have found other employment.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090171#Comment_119090171

In what way, shape or form is getting someone out working squeezing them, and what makes someone on the dole vulnerable?? Stop infantilizing adults. No wonder we have such a nanny state with the above attitude.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090415#Comment_119090415

yup, this is very true, but our unemployment figures have fallen a lot since the beginning of covid, so....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089543#Comment_119089543

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089545#Comment_119089545

Anyone I know who worked in hospitality, even when they more or less enjoyed it (culchie pub types) had ridiculous stories. Split shifts so it takes 10 hours to get paid for 7, **** around with the roster so that no-one (well, no-one who mattered) knew when they'd be working for the week til Sunday evening (Saturday occasionally), bullshit and shenanigans with tips etc. Knew a few who only much later (trying to use PRSI previously paid usually) found out they were never through the books. There's a popular restaurant in North Louth which shut down owing, somehow, thousands to suppliers (over €10k to milk supplier e.g.), left animals without food or water for days and when the staff went to sign on they found out they had no record of work. Same place re-opened with the same owners and the locals all went straight back to licking their holes so there really is an element of people bringing it on themselves.

It's easy saying it but people not standing up for themselves ends up like this. Too many people are told to be grateful they have a job. Well guess what, more of them are realising they can get more than a tenner an hour and not have to put up with some arsehole manager or customers slobbering all over them.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090200#Comment_119090200

But there are not enough jobs in other sectors in this country for all people who worked in hospitality before the first lockdown, are there? Furthermore, even without Covid travel restrictions, emigration is not an option for all unemployed people who can't find work.

Dempo1

Perhaps some may not understand how difficult it is to work in a hospitality environment and its not simply a case of an unemployed person walking in and getting a job and off they go.

Fair enough, some Roles don't require training but most do. It's a fast paced industry and not suited to everyone.

I recall when hospitality re opened there was countless complaints about appalling or lack of service, essentially caused by untrained and disinterested staff.

I started as a Chef, went into senior Management, have worked in 15 countries and had my own Restaurant and I can confidently say the Irish Hospitality industry is the worst I've worked in.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090469#Comment_119090469

once again, unemployment is more or less back to pre covid figures. yes emigration isnt an option for many, but maybe they dont want to emigrate, and just maybe theyre happier being unemployed....

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090460#Comment_119090460

You are sadly correct and non payment of wages was a serious problem.

I don't mind telling you, it was so bad after the Crash, I actually did credit checks on potential Employers before even attending interviews.

The sector hit rock bottom during the celtic tiger era, Clueless developers building poorly designed hotels, Hiring Family to run them who had zero experience. Absolute disaster and many eventually taken over by NAMA, I actually spent time going into this places trying to restructure, Get money for staff and suppliers, there was many horrendous messes created and it was staff that always suffered.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090294#Comment_119090294

In Limerick it was very few and most that didn't reopen were the type that had little or no crew. Maybe it's different other places but Cork and Dublin look in full flow from what I've seen.

And there is a lack of staff in hospitality so anyone from a pub that didn't reopen should get a job easy. So I don't believe there is this massive workforce sitting at home who could be taking the hospitality jobs but just don't want to.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089511#Comment_119089511

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089468#Comment_119089468

Your asking a lot of questions you already know the answer to

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090515#Comment_119090515

Even when money isn't a problem it's unreal how stingy and mean people can be. Chippy in my town is closed since before Christmas for other reasons. One of the most popular in town, cash only. Serious, ludicrous money flowing through it. Few months later my mother bumped into a couple of the staff (who had been there 10-15 years) who were working in a shop. Owner of the chipper did nothing to help anyone out, no word on how long they'd be closed and was avoiding calls. Owed one of them 2 weeks wages and delivery driver about 300. I have to say I was honestly shocked, thought that particular place was a bit better but it would appear not.

Sleeper12

If the government are clever they should encourage Ukrainians to enter the sector.

waterwelly

Lots of I'll informed people sticking the boot in here knocking employers.

If an employer takes on an 18 y.o. with no experience and pays them €11 an hour it is some of the best job and life experience they will ever get and they will possibly learn a lot more than a lot of college courses that they waste 4 years attending for 15 hours a week.

I see it all the time, they go into a job as mammys cotton wool wrapped precious and the employer is left to knock mammys molly cuddling out of them, and usually succeeds.

I know plenty of people who are treated well, get their holidays and tips etc.

If an employer acts the maggot then leave.

I know one employer who advertises every single week and he just doesn't realise the problem is him as he is a bad employer. People work there to put a couple of months on the CV then get something better.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090537#Comment_119090537

...some people truly couldnt give a fcuk about others!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090540#Comment_119090540

It's gonna upset some of the racists but the fact is we desperately need to get foreigners in for a lot of jobs right now. Problem is they have nowhere to live if they tried come over.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090557#Comment_119090557

I thing the racists will be upset when they see who pays for their state pension in 2 decades time & possibly the colour of the skin of their carers.

I agree with you. The 40K that left the sector were mostly foreign nationals that went home during Covid. Ukrainians are already here. This is a perfect sector for some of them to work. Front line for those with good english & housekeeping for those with poor English

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090541#Comment_119090541

...we actually dont live in this perfect world, where people truly get to chose their place of employment, its not exactly that easy to walk from one job to another, as life normally has all sorts of obstacles in place, from dependents, to debt obligations etc etc. some employers are simply arseholes, have little or no respect for the people that help run their businesses, yes theres enormous pressures in running a business, but respect goes a long way! oh and treating young workers with a bit of respect is probably also a good idea

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090557#Comment_119090557

....and treat them with a bit of respect also, making sure their pay and conditions are improved.....

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090557#Comment_119090557

If a job isn't viable because there are no staff, it's not anymore viable than a business with no customers. We've also access to over 300m people within the EU.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090557#Comment_119090557

So as a non-racist you want to get foreigners in to do **** jobs? So you want them to come here and be treated worse than the Irish? That's a new one but you're obviously better than most people so kudos to you and your beautiful virtue.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090541#Comment_119090541

Like your post says, there's both good and bad employers.

I've worked in a few small pubs years ago, all for good employers.

Worked in a large hotel and things didn't go so smoothly.

You'd get low pay for very hard work at unsociable times and often having to deal with drunk/ar5ehole/ignorant customers. There were often shennanigans with the rosters, changes at the last minute, no weekends off etc. Tips weren't always shared as agreed. No overtime, you'd be promised time off in lieu but the reality was that you would very rarely get to take it, and you'd certainly never get to take all that was owed to you. It would keep getting pushed out month after month due to the place being busy. One ex-colleague was actually owed three months holidays as time in lieu that he never got to take. The waiting staff got crucified with split shifts. No set finishing time, it all depended on what was on in the hotel and how busy it was, making it difficult for family life. Disrupted sleep patterns were common for many of the staff.

So yeah, I can see why the industry is struggling to recruit.

jrosen

Service industries in general are poor. Dealing with the public is exhausting and difficult. Add to that shite money and worse hours, no real perks its easy to see why people are slow to return.

I have family who have worked in hotels for years, promised the sun moon and stars at interview stage and it never ever turns out that way.

c.p.w.g.w

Wages are a disgrace in the industry and the sh!te they have to deal with is horrific

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090595#Comment_119090595

Ive 15 years in hospitality and always done what I could for staff even when we worked for sht bosses. Could have made a lot more money if I towed the company line so shove your fake concern.

I said needed for many jobs. For instance nursing, construction, dentistry as well as hospitality.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089457#Comment_119089457

And joining a trade union?

1. Do it 2. Don't tell anyone

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090592#Comment_119090592

So all the old people currently being cared for by the HSE are just left to rot because the job isn't viable ?

The houses than need to get built the same ?

Those 300m are you'll never guess foreigners.

ancapailldorcha

Done my time in Hospitality. Awful sector ripe with abuse and terrible owners masquerading as businessmen IME. They deserve what they get.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119090591#Comment_119090591

Damn right. Respect, proper pay and good conditions should be so obvious it's sad people still need to fight for them.

Dempo1

Just in relation to foreign nationals working in the Irish Hospitality Industry, I've met and worked with 100"s of wonderful people from all the world. Admitidly when the work permit program was introduced it was horrific, there was no training, appalling accommodation and serious exploitation as work permits were linked to the employer /place of employment and the abuse that went on was appalling.

Many did go on the get senior roles and when the conditions of Work permits relaxed they went on to find better jobs, many also opened their own successful businesses.

Many also found better opportunities in other sectors and left the sector the first chance they got.

Whilst some Ukrainians have started working in hotels, restaurants, bars etc it's going to be near impossible to encourage foreign nationals to return to Ireland and the hospitality sector, primarily because of its reputation and the total lack of accommodation and also remember the standard of living in countries like Poland is far better than it was in early 2000"s there's really very little to incentify foreign nationals to come to Ireland and work in Hospitality.