Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

Igotadose · 19-05-2022 11:05am

I miss the old anti-vaxx thread. This one's become so boring and predictable, anti-vaxxers deny they're anti-vaxxers, eventually the (virtual) mask slips, they spam with Twitter junk, run away, reincarnate perhaps, repeat, repeat.

But, hey, where'd we be without the humour they're currently providing? Like this: looking for the bluetooth signals in cemeteries to see if the deceased were vaccinated! Chips give off bluetooth, doncha' know?

Pinch Flat · 19-05-2022 4:44pm

anti-vaxxers really are a specialist kind of simple

Dohnjoe · 19-05-2022 6:22pm

And we find them in abundance in their natural habitat; on conspiracy theory forums

snowcat · 19-05-2022 8:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086457#Comment_119086457

Again the extreme pro vaxxers, pro drug, pro gmo, pro chemical, pro "trust the science". Mainly i dont understand the science but the experts have said its ok so it is.

There is no great conspiracy with the vaxxes. They seem to be fine, they have not killed anyone (debatable).

Again I will draw an analogy with GMO food. Yes it seems fine. Yes it has been declared safe. Yes it will solve the world hunger problem. However What will happen to our birds bees etc in 10-20 years and what surprises do we have in store with pharma enhanced food?

In the long run do I want it in my body?

Yes if i go out for a meal ill eat it. Yes it wont kill me. Do I agree with it. No. Am I a conspiracy theorist? The extreme pro druggers/vaxxers would think so.

Dohnjoe · 19-05-2022 9:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086945#Comment_119086945

There's no such thing as "pro-vaxxer", it's a term invented by people who have a completely irrational view to validate their tribalism. Likewise "flat-earthers" have invented a term for people who believe the world is round - aka everyone

You are simply taking the "I'm just concerned about vaccines" approach in order to try and separate yourself from the full-on loons. Problem is you rely on a lot of the same faulty talking points.

snowcat · 19-05-2022 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087088#Comment_119087088

Ok. Give me a term then that describes someone that believes we should vaxx kids that have statistically zero risk from covid for covid. (With the risks from the vaccine factored in)

whippet · 19-05-2022 9:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087150#Comment_119087150

The term is use is 'The majority'

snowcat · 19-05-2022 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087088#Comment_119087088

I think there is a very emotional and synaptic response to being called a anti vaxxer or a pro vaxxer. The pro vaxxer loved it as a way to denegrade the lesser beings that were the anti vaxxers and were jumped on by the media et al as uneducated or unscientific. However when the vaccices started to underperform the platform shifted. We had a divergence from the vaccines will protect you (full Stop) to the vaccines will protect you from serious illness and death. (We sort of expected that!). Again when you were never really in risk from the virus due to age etc the arguement for the vaccines really wained. Now we all sort of expect that the vaxx was grand. We think or was Omicron just milder?

King Mob · 19-05-2022 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087217#Comment_119087217

Still no such thing as a "pro vaxxer."

You guys are all anti vaxxers though.

How come you're ignoring all of the claims made by your anti vaxxer buddies?

Markus Antonius · 20-05-2022 12:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087217#Comment_119087217

Omicron did all the work, the vaccines took the credit.

The skeptics in this forum would literally take or do anything to fit in. Very sad.

For some reason this old video popped up in my youtube recommended (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7yb3AfHYNY) It gives a stark 10 year before and after of patients who started on a treatment of OxyContin for pain relief in 1998. Initially of course doctors, patients and patient's families singing it's praises from the rooftop as a revolutionary new medication only for things to start deteriorating very quickly and ultimately destroying their lives.

But but but, FDA, but but but Science, they are never wrong!!

King Mob · 20-05-2022 4:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087944#Comment_119087944

FYI @snowcat. Before you leap onto supporting this chap because he's on your side, he believes that all space flight is faked and he is possibly a flat earther.

Gosh it sure looks like a lot of the folks agreeing with you hold some really embarrassing views. Weird that...

snowcat · 20-05-2022 5:40am

Yes keep telling yourself that. You are a prime example of an extreme pro vaxxer. A mirror image of an extreme anti vaxxer. I am neither extreme pro or extreme anti but that seems to infuriate you and some of your friends.

robinph · 20-05-2022 6:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087944#Comment_119087944

Not sure why you are bringing up oxycontin in a thread about covid vaccines?

The only similarity is that they are both made by drug companies, but then the only similarity between JFK and Diana is that they both died in a car and that doesn't stop conspiracy theorists from getting the topics mixed up in threads around here.

hometruths · 20-05-2022 8:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087217#Comment_119087217

However when the vaccices started to underperform the platform shifted. We had a divergence from the vaccines will protect you (full Stop) to the vaccines will protect you from serious illness and death. (We sort of expected that!).

This is my problem with the vaccines. When the vaccines were first rolled out the clear expectation was that the primary function was to prevent catching Covid.

When it became abundantly clear that this was not working as intended, but they were having good effect in preventing serious illness and death, very few vaccine proponents acknowledged this. It was spun as if the primary function all along was to reduce serious illness and death, and anybody who thought they were taking the vaccine to prevent them getting Covid just didn't understand how vaccines worked.

This is total and utter nonsense, and as far as I am concerned it undermines all subsequent claims about the vaccine efficacy and safety.

robinph · 20-05-2022 8:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088168#Comment_119088168

This is my problem with the vaccines. When the vaccines were first rolled out the clear expectation was that the primary function was to prevent catching Covid.

No it wasn't. There was never any claims of the vaccines being infallible they were just hopeful of having something that was at least 40% effective at reducing symptoms / death.

The only people claiming that the vaccines were meant to be a miracle cure is conspiracy theorists, who two years ago were telling us that covid didn't exist, or that these vaccines they are now so concerned about didn't exist either.

hometruths · 20-05-2022 8:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088226#Comment_119088226

No it wasn't. There was never any claims of the vaccines being infallible they were just hopeful of having something that was at least 40% effective at reducing symptoms / death.

I never said the vaccines were designed or claimed to be infallible. That's ridiculous. I said they were claimed and approved to prevent Covid. Not necessarily to do that with 100% success, that's also ridiculous, but there is no doubt originally the primary function was to prevent Covid - not reduce serious symptoms/death.

And for you to claim now that the vaccine was originally approved and rolled out in the hope of "having something that was at least 40% effective at reducing symptoms / death" is a blatant lie and exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.

It is impossible to take seriously any claims or arguments on vaccine efficacy or safety from vaccine proponents who try to rewrite history, whether it is an anonymous internet poster or the FDA, the CDC, HSE, WHO etc etc.

patnor1011 · 20-05-2022 8:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088264#Comment_119088264

Exactly.

However, certain regular posters here do suffer from some form of selective amnesia.

patnor1011 · 20-05-2022 8:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088077#Comment_119088077

Not sure? That is because you choose to ignore another similarity which is that serious damage or side effects started to show only after some time passed or after prolonged use.

What are we on now? Second booster which has to be taken within 4 months after the first one.

King Mob · 20-05-2022 9:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088040#Comment_119088040

It's true though. Ask him yourself if you doubt.

Likewise you've been constantly ignoring the lies and dishonesty pumped out by "people just concerned about the vaccine".

Why are you hit by such selective mutism when you see this? Is it because you believe there aren't any examples?

Still no such animal as an "extreme pro vaxxer" though. No matter how much you keep telling yourself that.

King Mob · 20-05-2022 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088320#Comment_119088320

Pat, why are you pretending you didn't open this thread based on trying to lie about the Vaers and eudravigilance data?

What serious effects do you believe the vaccines cause only after extreme long terms and repeated use? What other vaccines show similar?

And what precisely is this based on other than your personal untrained, highly biased and very dishonest opinion?

robinph · 20-05-2022 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088264#Comment_119088264

I didn't say that the vaccines were 40% effective. I said that when in early trials the likes of WHO were hopeful of something that would be at least 40% effective, and that if they managed that it would be good enough to make a difference and that is approximately the effectiveness of other vaccines, such as the annual flu ones which vary between 40-60% only depending on the year.

It turned out they were far more effective than that.

robinph · 20-05-2022 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088320#Comment_119088320

Is there anything showing up regarding serious side effects that only appear after a year?

As for opioids, it was well known the effects of them. The thing with Oxycontin was that they claimed it didn't have those effects and there was conspiracies with trying to hide that information etc.

hometruths · 20-05-2022 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088531#Comment_119088531

Effective at what? You said "they were just hopeful of having something that was at least 40% effective at reducing symptoms / death"

Whilst that may have turned out to be what the vaccines were effective at, it is a lie to claim that is what was hoped for when the vaccines were initially approved.

The hope and expectation, and hence the marketing, was entirely focussed on the fact that they would be effective at preventing symptomatic cases of Covid.

whippet · 20-05-2022 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088565#Comment_119088565

what scientific metrics are you using for your 'opinion' ?

When we had a couple of thousand cases our hospitals were over run and pressure on ICU beds was almost unmanageable .. yet when we had 20-30k cases per day our hospitals managed .... the effects of vaccines on the potency of the virus was profound.

robinph · 20-05-2022 10:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088565#Comment_119088565

I'm on about before the vaccines were approved, when they were still being developed and not even started testing yet. Then the WHO was just hopeful of something, anything, that would work a bit. Absolutely no expectation that any vaccines would emerge anything like as effective as they turned out.

Even the least effective ones that finally got released were well above what was hoped for back in early 2020, or late 2019 before anyone had actually heard of covid.

drunkmonkey · 20-05-2022 10:04am

Do we need to start a new thread for the Monkeypox vaccine conspiracy, luckly enough they had some freeze dried since 2019, https://www.newsweek.com/monkeypox-cased-uk-massachusetts-case-vaccine-ordered-us-1708075

Any trial data on mixing the monkeypox with 2 jabs and 2 boosters?

hometruths · 20-05-2022 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088577#Comment_119088577

Your post confirms exactly what I am saying - the huge volume of cases is a very clear indicator that the vaccines were not effective at preventing symptomatic cases of Covid.

As to the fact that the hospitals managed at best suggests that the benefits of the vaccine were reducing severe outcomes of covid rather than preventing cases in the first place. Also exactly what I have been saying.

I say "at best" because we'll never know for sure if the hospitals coped because Omicron was a milder variant thus reducing the severity, or the vaccines reduced the severity.

Either way it does not contradict the opinion that the vaccines have been very poor at preventing cases of Covid. it bolsters it.

whippet · 20-05-2022 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088632#Comment_119088632

but your opinion is just that .. an opinion. There are scientific studies done by actual experts and scientists that would not support your opinion. Everyone is entitled to an option - it just does not make that opinion correct

hometruths · 20-05-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088597#Comment_119088597

I'm on about before the vaccines were approved, when they were still being developed and not even started testing yet. Then the WHO was just hopeful of something, anything, that would work a bit.

Fair enough, I wouldn't dispute at that all. But you initially posted to contradict my post "When the vaccines were first rolled out the clear expectation was that the primary function was to prevent catching Covid."

In the context of my point on claimed efficacy and safety, the reasons why the vaccines that had been developed were approved for human use is very important. It is very different from some vague aspirations as to future success whilst being developed.

hometruths · 20-05-2022 10:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088643#Comment_119088643

That the vaccines were initially granted approval solely to prevent symptomatic cases of Covid is a statement of fact.

If it is your opinion that with a 90%+ vaccination rate and over 20k cases a day that is evidence that the vaccines are effective at preventing Covid, then fair enough.

In my opinion, it is evidence that the vaccines are not effective at preventing Covid.

Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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