Fall of the Catholic Church

With respect I suspect you've very little experience of clubs. The picture postcard image you have in your head rarely exists.

There's enough articles in the media about problems with clubs. Kinda hard to miss it.

https://youtu.be/rt8T8oho4Fk

Plenty. I'm not saying there aren't problems, I'm saying that they're a much better fostering of community than religion.

Am at work in a loud environment, so can't listen to the youtube clip - give me a summary (as long as it disputes the above comment - if it doesn't, don't bother)

This is why I switched off from Catholicism. Too many people pretending to be Christian who are not Christian. Just another excuse for a dress, money, big day out, Keeping up appearances.

It's kind of a celebrity culture spinoff.

I think Jesus would be astonished the way people assume any of this is being Christian when in fact it's helping the poor and your neighbor ... And not ***** up the environment for future generations or sticking your head in the sand with your financial investments ....

The church just added a whole load of shite on Jesus's message. They turned it into a circus so loads of people would "join".

I never said that attending religious services wasn't the only social outlet for people, but it was the only social outlet where the whole community (i.e. people that live near each other) did participate.

Given that up until relatively recently the vast majority of Irish people identified themselves as one faith, attending their services certainly did provide a common universal social space in this country. It was an anchor point.

It is something that has not been replicated by any pub, concert or club. What are the anchor points for a modern Irish community? What are the collective commonalities that foster a sense of community among the people that live near each other?

I am not saying that this is a good or a bad thing, but an observation.

Opposite or trans, obviously - how else are you going to describe something that stays on the same side?

And before you say something like "normal", that's like saying "homo"sexual is a nonsense word because "hetero"sexual is "nomal" and "homo"sexual is has also got no purpose.

This is the problem with internet atheists, pure arrogance. You think you know whether or not something makes someone else happy, without having an actual clue if it does or doesn't. Go to depression forums, and you won't find many Christians, but I'd bet you'll find many atheists. Being bitter and spiteful, as you were in your first few posts here, isn't a trait of a happy person, yet you think you've some right to declare that others can't be happy living with a different set of values.

Once again, nothing but arrogance. The "tolerant" who tolerate little but their own way, a trope we've become far too used to. The irony of your post too, considering that your views would create more "victimhood" than less, as you're a perfect example of a poster with nothing but hatred towards Catholics. I appreciate your honesty though, as many try and dress up their hatred, but you, you are frank.

Seriously? You post about what 'the vast majority' are thinking, without any backup or verification, but you expect me to explain what 'many parents' want? Fairly typical of the double-standards that we've seen coming from the Church for decades, with Eamonn Casey and Micheal Cleary telling us about modesty and chastity, while riding anything with a pulse, so we shouldn't be surprised with the same double standards coming from those who want to maintain their grip on control of churches and hospitals.

Parents have been organised for decades, and have managed to create about 100 non-denominational schools over the past 20 years or so, and yet still, bad Ministers and bad Bishops have managed to maintain that vice grip of control over the vast majority of schools and hospitals, living up to the Jesuits modus operandi, give me the child at 7, etc etc.

What is it about Church people that have this deep need to enslave others into their cult, and stop people from thinking independently?

The Catholic values that women are 2nd class citizens, that gay people are intrinsically disorded, that sex and even masturbation is sinful - why would anyone want their kids to buy into that?